Tribulus dosage?

[booby]

its dopaminergic, NO and estrogenic effects which increase libido and erection frequency leads people to beleive their test is raised, when it is not.
it is not a placebo effect (though that is also an issue), it is effects that are caused by several actions that are understandably, but incorrectly, attributed to others (increased test and LH response)

very interesting!...thanx!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

very interesting!...thanx!

basically, you feel things that would lead you to believe that your test levels are increasing.. when in fact they are not.

this is one of the reasons that people beleived that yohimbine increased test levels, because of its secondary effects on phosphodieterase it increased erection frequency and hardness. of course yohimbine does not increase testosterone, but its effects could lead one to beleive that it does.

as a note- yohimbine was the only oral drug approved for the treatment of erectile disfunction prior to viagra.

 

[T-Matt]

This is directly from Cy Wilson over at T-Nation

"Hi T-Matt,

I've addressed a good deal of this in a previous thread:

http://www.t-nation.com/...ic.do?id=749383

I included references in that thread as well. It is true that tribulus has been shown to have a vasodilatory effect which can result in improved erectile function, however, it has also been shown to increase LH and testosterone in animal models where limited oral bioavailability was circumvented (high dose IV administration of the active constituents). Rat bioassays have also demonstrated androgenic effects.

If you're asking exactly *how* does tribulus or rather the active constituents in it, increase LH and testosterone, that's a good question. Unfortunately, there isn't much data which has looked at the exact mechanism of action for tribulus as there isn't much funding when it comes to supplements used for such purposes. However, I think it's also important to understand that we still don't have all of the exact mechanisms mapped out for aspirin, not to mention a large number of compounds which are used today. Even in those cases where there are mechanisms, they are simply "proposed" mechanisms with some (generally limited) supportive data behind them. "

I still don't know what to make of this..

T-Matt

basically, you feel things that would lead you to believe that your test levels are increasing.. when in fact they are not.

this is one of the reasons that people beleived that yohimbine increased test levels, because of its secondary effects on phosphodieterase it increased erection frequency and hardness. of course yohimbine does not increase testosterone, but its effects could lead one to beleive that it does.

as a note- yohimbine was the only oral drug approved for the treatment of erectile disfunction prior to viagra.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

actually those rat studies did NOT find increased LH or Testosterone. Assumptions were made based on receptor modeling.

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Jan 4;96(1-2):127-32. Related Articles, Links


Effect of Tribulus terrestris on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase activity and androgen receptors in rat brain.

Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 119074, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris L. (Zygophyllaceae) have been used as an aphrodisiac both in the Indian and Chinese traditional systems of medicine. Administration of Tribulus terrestris extract (TT) [dincreased sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure both in normal and castrated rats and these effects were probably due to the androgen increasing property of TT. The objective of the present study is to evaluate the effect of TT on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase (NADPH-d) activity and androgen receptor (AR) immunoreactivity in rat brain. Twenty-four adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into two groups of twelve each. Group I was treated with distilled water and Group II was treated with TT at the dose of 5mg/kg body weight orally, once daily for 8 weeks. Following treatment transcardiac perfusion was done with Ringer lactate, 4% paraformaldehyde and 30% sucrose. The brain tissue was removed and sections of the paraventricular (PVN) area of hypothalamus were taken for NADPH-d and AR immunostaining. There was an increase in both NADPH-d (67%) and AR immunoreactivity (58%) in TT treated group and these results were statistically significant compared to the control. Chronic treatment of TT in rats increases the NADPH-d positive neurons and AR immunoreactivity in the PVN region. Androgens are known to increase both AR and NADPH-d positive neurons either directly or by its conversion to oestrogen. The mechanism for the observed increase in AR and NADPH-d positive neurons in the present study is probably due to the androgen increasing property of TT. The findings from the present study add further support to the aphrodisiac claims of TT.

-----------------------------
these kind of assumptions are infuriating. Instead of testing testosterone levels or LH levels, they study an aspect of activity that can be caused by multiple actors.


now this study actually measures the correct variables

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23. Related Articles, Links


The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

 

[paridhm]

Macro, are there any studies proving that Avena Sativa, or any herb, raises Testosterone levels?

 

[heavy_duty]

Tmag or Tnation forum is as useful at tits on a bull. They know as much about gear as my 12 year old niece.

But they seem to know a lot about Creatine, Smilax officinalis & Ultimate Orange!!!

 

[heavy_duty]

why the black? you must have been over to C&C

 

[galaxy]

I know I mention Biotest products a lot, but Biotest's Alpha Male is friggin AWESOME at boosting natural testosterone levels..

T-Matt

Biotest Alpha Male is good stuff definately.

 

[Miek9743]

Tribulus - track.moreniche.com/hit.php?w=168081&s=219&a=12913
I received the order and it was on time and the pills work great.