training fallacies that annoy me

[Adaptek]

Beyond the obvious, iddiotic, newbie exercises,

These two get seem to be incorporated by many know-it-alls ...

They are:

1) behind the neck lat-pull downs-- I just cringe when I see this.. Imagine if the cable snapped.. Especially the way the idiots in my gym do the exercise-- with the entire stack, coming off the seat and then pulling down with their entire body weight.

But really, there is no difference between behind the neck pulldowns and infront of the neck.

2) Supinated (plams up) triceps pushdowns. Unlike the biceps, where this change of grip makes a difference, on tri's, it makes no difference at all... only you cannot lift as much weight with such an awkward hand position.

any more, guys?

Andy

I disagree with you.

These are very rash statements.
Yes you must use correct form, but:
Everybody has different genetics. Exercises will work differently for different people. Now I am sure that any experienced bodybuilder will tell you that behind the neck pull downs target an area that infront the neck pull downs cannot.

This is the area where the muscles squeeze together along the line of your upper spinal cord.

When I reverse grip my triceps I get a completely different burn to when I do normal push downs. It focuses the outter region more.

As far as I am concerned you should be flamed for this post. You have proved your ignorance. I would like to see what you look like. You prolley have 14" arms.

 

[Willyumyum]

I agree with most except the thread that states you cannot change the shape of a muscle.......actually I'm of the belief that the sole reason men's biceps look like they do instead of the feminine long belly type is because since we were young we flexed it a lot. I believe flexing improves the shape of the belly of the muscle. Women who flex a lot have masculine looking bellies of the muscle.....how would a person account for a female that just lifts weights to stay in shape & uses a lot of weight & proper exercises still having the female style belly of muscle but if you look at women that are actually trying to get that belly to stick up.........they flex all the time. I believe it's the flexing......that's my story & I'm sticking to it.


As for the lat pull downs....I cringe when I see so many people in the gym use the front lat pull down as if it were an extension of the tricep extension......oh yeah.....you've seen it......bar overhead........pull it down.....it just keeps coming down to their lap.......OMG & the people that have degrees at the Wellness Center I go to in Physical Therapy taught them that......HOLY SHIT......can you imagine the stress at 2 different joints? Shoulder rotating to accomidate the pronation of the wrists.......then the elbow joint picks up the next part of the stress at parallel.....then the wrists.......fuck.......stupid fuckers.....therapists & I have gone round & round.

Biggest arguements I've gotten in with therapists in the Wellness Center was on these two basic moves......
Dumbell Curl
Inverted Leg Press

In the Curl they want them against the wall & drop the weight to a full extension with kness slightly bent.......

I say.....knees slightly bent & leaning forward to keep the stress at the top of the movement....if leaning straight or back against a wall......stress will be relieved 3/4's into the movement.........that's a no go........
Next.......full extension.....they will pay for that when they get old......when you get full extension....I mean complete......the bones slightly pull apart at the elbow....then when you explode into the concentric phase of the exercise.....the bones there slam together.....every damn time......which will lead to a debilitating condition.
Never fully relax on the curl & do not lock outl.

On the Inverted Leg Press.......don't lock out. The bone has to travel a little further apart close to lock out & then as you lock out......notice that your leg comes back together.....try it sometime.....you'll extend........just as you lock out....it seems as your leg came apart & then came back together.......don't fully lock out at the top.....just go to the point just before lock out & bring it back down for the next part of the movement.
Imagine your leg as the joint moves & then is snapped in place at the lock out position by 600-1300lbs of weight against it for years. Plus that type of lock out rests the muscle too much at the top.....it should not be resting.

The last one is.......the MASSIVE GUY in the gym.......(massive fat ass more like it that thinks he is the hulk), bouncing 3 plates off his chest & using the powerlifter style spring as he lays there. Try crossing your legs over the bench in a 90degs & stop the weight 1 inch from the upper pec.....hehehehehe I dare him.......I double dare him.

I fart in their general direction

Some of what you sai about women and muscle shape isn't true... While is is true that women who use their muscles more have more full and developed muscle bellies it is not the working out that changes the shape of the muscle... Your genetic composition determines how each muscle will look at it's fully developed point. All the people doing peak "adding" and "defining" exercises are only screaming hope that their genetic makeup will include a peak and a nicely defined and shapely bicep, tricep, etc....
YUM

 

[E-Rawk]

I don't doubt that you 'feel' it differently.. But, really, anatomically, there is no difference.. I'm quite positive on this one. If you work on your bicep flexibility, you will see that you get the same 'feel' with palm down as palm up.

Andy

Oh well, go win mr olympia 7 times and Mr. Universe 3 times. Then write a new encyclopedia to bodybuilding and ill change my tricep workouts but untill then i think i'll stick with what works.

Page 454 of The New Encyclopedia to Modern Bodybuilding
One-arm cable reverse pressdowns
Purpose of excercise: To isolate the triceps and develope the horseshoe shape of the muscle.

 

[Andy13]

That's right.. Arnold does have his PhD in exercise phys.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Re: Re: training fallacies that annoy me

I disagree with you.

These are very rash statements.
Yes you must use correct form, but:
Everybody has different genetics. Exercises will work differently for different people. Now I am sure that any experienced bodybuilder will tell you that behind the neck pull downs target an area that infront the neck pull downs cannot.

This is the area where the muscles squeeze together along the line of your upper spinal cord.

When I reverse grip my triceps I get a completely different burn to when I do normal push downs. It focuses the outter region more.

As far as I am concerned you should be flamed for this post. You have proved your ignorance. I would like to see what you look like. You prolley have 14" arms.

Oh please.. Show me some proof.. No, not your arm.. Show me where this is documented.. Until then- do a search under my name and read some of my posts so you can see just how ignorant I am.

 

[Adaptek]

Re: Re: Re: training fallacies that annoy me

Oh please.. Show me some proof.. No, not your arm.. Show me where this is documented.. Until then- do a search under my name and read some of my posts so you can see just how ignorant I am.

Lets use some logic. Whenever we are training a body part it is almost impossible to isolate it completely. When doing tri-cep push downs, apart from working forearms, shoulders may also come into play, even when using strict form. Reversing the grip takes pressure off the shoulders. Don't believe me? Try doing tri-cep press downs after a hardcore shoulder workout.

Secondly maybe the muscles in your back are not developed enough for you to feel the difference between behind and front lat pull downs. When I do front lat pull downs, I feel it in my biceps. When I do behind the neck pull downs I feel it in my forearm more. So again it is a slightly different exercise. You can get a lot more squeeze behind the neck, its common sense. Yes overall you are targetting you back with both exercises but the variation will produce pronounced thickness in different areas.

Just because something works on paper does not mean it will work in the gym, it does not mean it will work for everyone. We are all made different. Some of us have natural freaky triceps and back, others have to hit them from a variety of different angles.

let me see your back. If it looks better than mine then I will believe whatever you say.

 

[GaryWary]

off topic, but what about the "bar builders". The guys that only build the muscles that look good in the bar or the mirror: chest, biceps, shoulder, etc.

At my gym... no-one trains legs... there are big people in there but all have shit legs... my legs are better than some people in there that outweigh me be 20 to 50lbs....

 

[John Woe]

Iceman that's called dunking donuts my friend. Tell them go in the hole or go home!!!

 

[Andy13]

Re: Re: Re: Re: training fallacies that annoy me

let me see your back. If it looks better than mine then I will believe whatever you say.

Ahh.. so is that how it works? The bigger you are, the more you know about exercise physiology?

 

[bigpoppadrew]

quote:
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Originally posted by frorider6
off topic, but what about the "bar builders". The guys that only build the muscles that look good in the bar or the mirror: chest, biceps, shoulder, etc.
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I know too many people that do this, they don't work out legs for some reason! I personally love to workout legs, I get the biggest burn and I love the feeling of barely being able to walk after. I think your legs are such a big part of your body that it makes no sense to neglect it, you can gain so much mass from squats and deadlifts and a lot of people don't do them. Oh well, makes those of us who do them look a lot better