These keto strips....

[tha_Waco_kid]

So are these things generally pretty accurate? I started a ketogenic diet and after two weeks of 20 or fewer carbs I have yet to get a positive reading. Since ketosis is usually achieved in around 2-3 days, what am I to make of this?

I should add, I havnt lost any weight either. Several days were literally zero carb - just eggs and meats. I have been in a deficit and hitting cardio also....I'm about 12-13% bf trying to get to single digits.

Depressing to say the least ....

 

[Hellawulf]

So are these things generally pretty accurate? I started a ketogenic diet and after two weeks of 20 or fewer carbs I have yet to get a positive reading. Since ketosis is usually achieved in around 2-3 days, what am I to make of this?

I should add, I havnt lost any weight either. Several days were literally zero carb - just eggs and meats. I have been in a deficit and hitting cardio also....I'm about 12-13% bf trying to get to single digits.

Depressing to say the least ....

Same problem below here actually.

But as for the ketostix. No they are far from accurate. If you've been on low carbs for that period of time you are definitely in ketosis. There are three types of ketones and ketostixs only measures one. Your body may not produce as much of this particular type due to different reasons, which is reason number 1 as to why they are not totally accurate.

Reason number 2. Ketostix only measures ketones in your urine. The only reason it would pick up on them is if you have excess ketones. Just because you don't have excess ketones in your urine does not mean that you do not have serum ketones.

How do you feel? Do you feel higher energy yet? Did you go through the fog state and are you better now? If you are not getting readings on your ketostix then that is a better indicator of whether or not your in ketosis... but chances are that you are in fact in ketosis.

Are you drinking much coffee?

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

I actually cut out all caffeine and stims to see if that would make a difference

Do you think caffeine negatively effects a keto diet? I know there are conflicting opinions out there

 

[Hellawulf]

I actually cut out all caffeine and stims to see if that would make a difference

Do you think caffeine negatively effects a keto diet? I know there are conflicting opinions out there

I'm pretty torn on the subject. I personally had better results when I ran EC with CKD a couple summers back. But theoretically caffeine should kinda kick you out of ketosis. I've never been one of those people to say "well it just depends on the individual" because that's bull, it either does or it doesn't.

I say it theoretically should because it causes the release of adrenaline which causes the release of glycogen as glucose into the blood stream, which obviously increases insulin and should kick you out of ketosis and for those of us in ketosis that glycogen is super important for maintaining our lifts... BUT, this biological sugar rush is pretty short, I believe its liver glycogen (as opposed to muscle glycogen) and there are a lot of other things going on, not to mention the whole glycogen-based understanding of caffeine is studied with people that are not in ketosis.

Ketosis really does create a metabolic switch, so I wonder if being in ketosis kinda changes the way caffeine does its business in the body. I would love to write a PhD thesis on this...

Some very preliminary research has shown that people taking a little caffeine didn't lose any more weight than people not taking caffeine, but they didn't lose any less either...

People taking ephedra and caffeine simultaneously saw significant fat reduction...

I say go for it! And come back to this thread and let me know if it works! I'll do the same... I just started Animal Cuts, which isn't ephedra based, but it has the thermogenic, etc. etc. and definitely has plenty of caffeine (with straight up caffeine anhydrous and all those tea extracts)... I'll let ya know in like 2 weeks? (maybe remind me tho! haha)

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

So are these things generally pretty accurate? I started a ketogenic diet and after two weeks of 20 or fewer carbs I have yet to get a positive reading. Since ketosis is usually achieved in around 2-3 days, what am I to make of this?

I should add, I havnt lost any weight either. Several days were literally zero carb - just eggs and meats. I have been in a deficit and hitting cardio also....I'm about 12-13% bf trying to get to single digits.

Depressing to say the least ....

You need a keto blood meter to be very specific, but, in general, 2 weeks of straight low/no-carbs should yield a positive result on the ketostix. It's likely you're eating hidden carbs you're not aware of that are keeping you out of ketosis OR you're not eating enough fat.

Post your diet.

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

You need a keto blood meter to be very specific, but, in general, 2 weeks of straight low/no-carbs should yield a positive result on the ketostix. It's likely you're eating hidden carbs you're not aware of that are keeping you out of ketosis OR you're not eating enough fat.

Post your diet.

I keep track of every thing I eat. No hidden carbs. Not even any greens

Some days were literally zero carbs, just meat and eggs

Other days are a combination of meat, eggs, nuts, and very low carb protein isolate (.8 gram carb per scoop)

I was never above 25 g carbs per day, and most of this carbs were fibrous carbs from the almonds/walnuts.

Pretty high in fat also - I ate whole eggs, some read meats, and the nuts are fatty.

According to everything I've read, my diet was even more low in carbs than it needed to be. Very curious to see why I am not in ketosis (according to the strips ) and not losing any weight. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Hellawulf]

I keep track of every thing I eat. No hidden carbs. Not even any greens

Some days were literally zero carbs, just meat and eggs

Other days are a combination of meat, eggs, nuts, and very low carb protein isolate (.8 gram carb per scoop)

I was never above 25 g carbs per day, and most of this carbs were fibrous carbs from the almonds/walnuts.

Pretty high in fat also - I ate whole eggs, some read meats, and the nuts are fatty.

According to everything I've read, my diet was even more low in carbs than it needed to be. Very curious to see why I am not in ketosis (according to the strips ) and not losing any weight. Thanks for the reply!

Then it is literally impossible for you to not be in ketosis.

What has the mirror test been saying?

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

I keep track of every thing I eat. No hidden carbs. Not even any greens

Some days were literally zero carbs, just meat and eggs

Other days are a combination of meat, eggs, nuts, and very low carb protein isolate (.8 gram carb per scoop)

I was never above 25 g carbs per day, and most of this carbs were fibrous carbs from the almonds/walnuts.

Pretty high in fat also - I ate whole eggs, some read meats, and the nuts are fatty.

According to everything I've read, my diet was even more low in carbs than it needed to be. Very curious to see why I am not in ketosis (according to the strips ) and not losing any weight. Thanks for the reply!

Post up your diet , let's see. You're giving broad examples of your diet - if you are monitoring it as you say, post up the diet so I can review it.

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Post up your diet , let's see. You're giving broad examples of your diet - if you are monitoring it as you say, post up the diet so I can review it.

OK, here is the basic diet. The protien powders I'm using are unsweetened from TrueNutrition - 0.8 carbs per scoop.

Following this plan I am always under 30 grams carbs, with at least half of them being from fiber (nuts) Probably every 3rd day, I literally go zero carbs, just eggs and meats all day.

Meal 1

4 eggs
1 scoop sugar free Whey Isolate powder (mixed in water)

Meal2
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 3
1 scoop sugar free Whey Isolate powder (mixed in water)
1 scoop sugar free Casein Protein powder (mixed in water)
1 tblsp olive oil

Meal 4
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 5
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 6
4 eggs
1 scoop sugar free Casein Protein powder (mixed in water)

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

OK, here is the basic diet. The protien powders I'm using are unsweetened from TrueNutrition - 0.8 carbs per scoop.

Following this plan I am always under 30 grams carbs, with at least half of them being from fiber (nuts) Probably every 3rd day, I literally go zero carbs, just eggs and meats all day.

Meal 1

4 eggs
1 scoop sugar free Whey Isolate powder (mixed in water)

Meal2
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 3
1 scoop sugar free Whey Isolate powder (mixed in water)
1 scoop sugar free Casein Protein powder (mixed in water)
1 tblsp olive oil

Meal 4
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 5
6 oz chicken breast or ground turkey, or 5 oz red meat (lean top round)
1 oz almonds or walnuts

Meal 6
4 eggs
1 scoop sugar free Casein Protein powder (mixed in water)

Don't worry, this is a typical mistake of a low carb dieter. You're on a high protein medium fat /low carb diet, not on the high fat medium protein diet as you should be. This is typical and happens very frequently. The high protein intake causes problems with the metabolic shift to ketosis because protein is broken down by the body as a source of fuel, instead of fat.

1) drop whey protein, never use it again on a CKD, replace with caseinate
2) add bacon to breakfast
3) add more health fats like flaxseed
4) add red meat instead of chicken, like FATTY steak (real fatty) - NOT lean, very fatty

These are the ratios you want:
60-65% fat, 30-35% protein, no more than 5% carbs

You need a lot more fat. Try to get closer to 70% fat in your diet to help your body make that metabolic shift, and lower your protein.

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Interesting - I had read about not enough fat but my macros usually show about 50 F / 45 P / 5 C. But I can up the fats and see what that does. Switch the turkey burgers for ground beef and the lean meat to ribeye you say? Don't have to tell me twice! Now I'm really getting hungry . I also take flax liquid fells which I didn't mention. I'm allergic to fish so I can't take fish oils for the omegas. Thanks

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Interesting - I had read about not enough fat but my macros usually show about 50 F / 45 P / 5 C. But I can up the fats and see what that does. Switch the turkey burgers for ground beef and the lean meat to ribeye you say? Don't have to tell me twice! Now I'm really getting hungry . I also take flax liquid fells which I didn't mention. I'm allergic to fish so I can't take fish oils for the omegas. Thanks

Yes, switch out lean meats for high fat meats, and if you're allergic to fish/oil go with Flax. Keep your ratios to: 60-65% fat, 30-35% protein, no more than 5% carbs -- try to get more closer to 70% fat.

 

[Hellawulf]

Don't worry, this is a typical mistake of a low carb dieter. You're on a high protein medium fat /low carb diet, not on the high fat medium protein diet as you should be. This is typical and happens very frequently. The high protein intake causes problems with the metabolic shift to ketosis because protein is broken down by the body as a source of fuel, instead of fat.

1) drop whey protein, never use it again on a CKD, replace with caseinate
2) add bacon to breakfast
3) add more health fats like flaxseed
4) add red meat instead of chicken, like FATTY steak (real fatty) - NOT lean, very fatty

These are the ratios you want:
60-65% fat, 30-35% protein, no more than 5% carbs

You need a lot more fat. Try to get closer to 70% fat in your diet to help your body make that metabolic shift, and lower your protein.

+1

Your fat is TOO LOW. I LOVE THIS ADVICE! Eat more bacon!

There is a metabolic process by which amino acids are broken down into sugars which can cause insulin spikes. Your protein is high, and your fat is too low, which could be causing your body to use this metabolic process (I forget the name of it).

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Thanks guys I will give this a shot. I'm refeeding some carbs today then plan on resuming ketosis journey tomorrow

So, with the increased fats, what kind of caloric total should I be looking for? ie, percent of maintenance. Eating all this bacon, whole eggs, nuts, etc., it will be a challenge to stay under maintenance that is for sure

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Re: high fats

What about dairy? Ie, cheese, butter, heavy cream. Are these no nos even though v low carb?

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Thanks guys I will give this a shot. I'm refeeding some carbs today then plan on resuming ketosis journey tomorrow

So, with the increased fats, what kind of caloric total should I be looking for? ie, percent of maintenance. Eating all this bacon, whole eggs, nuts, etc., it will be a challenge to stay under maintenance that is for sure

What kind of refeed are you doing? make sure your fat levels aren't below 30% and you don't eat too many simple carbs.

 

[Hellawulf]

What kind of refeed are you doing? make sure your fat levels aren't below 30% and you don't eat too many simple carbs.

Disagree here. On your reefed day your fats should be below 30% and you do want simple carbs (BUT NOT SUGAR!). Simple carbs restore muscle glycogen better (i.e. pancakes, white bread, white rice, all the stuff you would never eat usually), sugar will only replenish liver glycogen though and can spill over and cause an insulin spike. You want to get 8-10 g carbs/kg body weight (i.e. for me at 200 pounds, I need about 700-800 grams of carbs in that 24 hour carb-up window).

 

[Hellawulf]

Re: high fats

What about dairy? Ie, cheese, butter, heavy cream. Are these no nos even though v low carb?

These are fine while in ketosis. Also be sure to get those essential fats by getting those oils in your diet.

And as for eating below maintenance on this diet. It is very easy because the satiety effect. I have trouble even eating as much as I'm supposed to 500 calls below maintenance right now... fat is very filling, and the only reason you haven't already experienced this effect is because you weren't eating enough fat.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Disagree here. On your reefed day your fats should be below 30% and you do want simple carbs (BUT NOT SUGAR!). Simple carbs restore muscle glycogen better (i.e. pancakes, white bread, white rice, all the stuff you would never eat usually), sugar will only replenish liver glycogen though and can spill over and cause an insulin spike. You want to get 8-10 g carbs/kg body weight (i.e. for me at 200 pounds, I need about 700-800 grams of carbs in that 24 hour carb-up window).

You can disagree all you want, that's not going to change facts. The added fat aids in slowing the release of glucose in the blood, thus avoiding sugar rushes or crashes that can leave you feeling spent and irritable. By using lower glycemic foods with
increased dietary fat, you’ll also be able to extend the length of your carb load and not smooth out as quickly. On top of this, the average bodybuilder will have a hard time getting back into ketosis during the first 4 weeks due to a fluctuating metabolic shift; thus, medium fat levels are a requirement during the loading phase.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Re: high fats

What about dairy? Ie, cheese, butter, heavy cream. Are these no nos even though v low carb?

Cheese, butter are all great, but really concentrate on fatty red meat rather than eating a ton of cheese and butter. Also, watch for the hidden carbs in food. (cheese has a bit)