The ultimate insulin thread

[SoreArms]

You guys post some good info.

K is coming as soon as I pass it around.

 

[juve]

Debate? LOL, science versus folk lore.

Just to keep it civil.
I can post a link to PubMed, StanfordMed, NEJM, etc...
Now that wouldn't say anything, right? All I am saying, if you cannot even provide a synopsis or an interpretation of what is said, why post it. There are databases out there which will give you more references than you would be able to peruse given the span of your life. If you can't infer or deduce anything from that, it's as good as purposeless to you.

 

[anthrax]

So, what is your postworkout meal Juve ?

and can a shake of protein be enough to stop cortisol ?

 

[bran987]

and perhaps.,. does this part of the article somewhat address what juve is talking about?

"Let me explain…

Our goal is to get a steady flow of nutrients during the potent “window of opportunity” post-training. I believe an overproduction of insulin, resulting from an overly rapid consumption of simple carbs, is the reason for a lot of the typical “bulking phase chub” we all hate.

As you consume your post-exercise meal, contemplate your energy levels over the next hour. It’s of the utmost significance that your energy levels do not go down at all during the post-workout period.

If they do that means this flow of nutrients has been disturbed. Two things can offset this flow:

1. Your blood glucose levels are dropping, meaning you aren’t getting enough nutrients when your body needs them.

2. Your blood glucose levels rose too quickly! As a result of this your body secretes an overload of insulin to get rid of the blood glucose. What happens as a result of this overload? Some of it will go to start protein synthesis, but most of it gets converted to fat. Remember, excess glucose goes to fat.

To make matters worse, your blood glucose levels begin to drop and you go back into a catabolic condition. So not only are you catabolic but you gain fat! WHOA! That’s the very opposite of what we want!

To protect against either of the above two scenarios consume your shake at a slower rate. Your post-workout meal should be taken over the course of a 45 to 60 minute period.

This cushioning effect will ensure a better processing job of the nutrients consumed. As a general rule of thumb, consume half of your meal immediately, and sip on the rest over the 45 to 60 minute time frame."

I know that it is different from what juve said.. I think he is suggesting zero post-workout carbs.. but at least this guy is in agreement that you can gain fat by drinking them all at once before your protein starts digesting?

 

[juve]

I am truly amazed Bran. Someone has actually read the articles
I'm certainly not in the position to critique the articles at full for they are a compilation of a great aggregate of research, but all those who said "great articles" "karma your..." I bet never even understood what was being said. But I raise the stakes - you haven't even read the articles - some people are just bound to concede to gain favor?
This is a sole reason why I wanted a debate - a monkey left alone in a library doesn't become anything resembling a human being

 

[juve]

Also, I want to make a distinction:
You might have got an idea that I advocate no glucose PW. If you reread my post you would see that I was simply rejecting the fallacious premiss that the reason for sugar PW is to shuttle aminos or blunt cortisol. Very much of your nutrition including PW depends on type of training, type of dieting, desired results (cosmetic, strength, endurance, speed)
One more thing, cortisol is by far not the greatest 'evil' that is 'destroying' your hard earned muscle. Reactive oxygen species, perroxides, tnf, nf (these are actually the ones found in muscle wasting/cancer patients; healthy individuals simply have a surge of these PW due to stress) type proteins, etc are far more dangerous - they can alter DNA composition of muscle cells, not mentioning destryoing it.

And please everyone who extolls the articles - please do share what it is that you have learned and will incorporate in your routine form now on. Very curious here

 

[SoreArms]

So if your body is in the process of gluconeogenesis, would post WO whey (with no carbs) be turned into glucose rather than used to repair muscle?

Once gluconeogenesis is in process, wouldn't cortisol levels also drop because glucose (form protein) is now available?

Also, could gluconeogenesis be avoided by supplementing BCAA's?

Insulin rebound is responsible for the release of Growth Hormone, which is the key hormone responsible for the release of Insulin Growth Factor.

As a general rule, on a bulk-up plan the amount of carbs to consume following a hardcore weight training session is five grams of simple carbohydrates for every ten pounds of lean body mass (LBM). This would mean a body builder with 200lbs. of LBM would consume 100 grams of high-glycemic simple carbohydrates post-training.

On a cutting phase I recommend consuming 2.5 grams of carbs per ten pounds of lean body mass

Mix (using the same 200 lb. male on a bulk example) 100 grams of a combination of 50% of your carbs coming from Dextrose and 50 % of your carbs coming from Maltodextrin with,

50 grams of hydrolyzed whey protein,

all mixed with 1 Liter of Water.

Shake all the ingredients well. (I personally like using a Tupperware cup for my shakes)

Scoop out and consume 5-10 grams of creatine, and consume along side the shake. I don’t recommend mixing the creatine directly into the shake. Simply spoon it into your mouth and drink it down with your shake. Consume 1/2 of the shake in this immediately following your workout in this manner. After you have taken half the shake in, continue taking small sips of the shake.

15-20 minutes later

Scoop out and consume (again don’t mix directly into the shake) 5-10 grams of L-Glutamine.

Now is the time to consume any anti oxidants with your shake. A high quality multi-vitamin will work well, or you can just take Vitamin C and/or E.

This combination of L-Glutamine and anti-oxidants will help to super charge your immune system after the beating it has just taken.

Continue sipping on your post-workout meal for the duration of the initial 45-60 minute period.

30 minutes after you have completely finished your post-workout meal eat a well balanced meal.

Interesting. I'll have to read the second article when I get home from work.

Anybody have any links supporting the "other" side to this, or any other point of view not nescessarily con?

 

[njlw226]

in regards to the first article...

that first article was an absolute great read. if i had any karma, id shoot it your way. i do have some questions here though:

-in regards to this PWO shake, ive been taking my shake down just a few minutes before i start my workout so that it hopefully hits right when im done. should i go ahead and change that and take it right after like this article states?

-should i go ahead and make sure i am supplementing glutamine? i do not currently take glutamine, but is it safe to say i need to be?

-this says to go ahead and get my vitamin c & e with this shake. i have plenty of C & E in my multivitamin. should i take this multi with the shake then? the bottle says to take with food.

thanks so much for the help guys.

 

[SoreArms]

Originally posted by Juve
as soon as your body shifts to a process of being 'fed' cortisol production ceases and insulin itself suppresses the rest.

I re-read your post and answered some of my questions.

 

[ProtienFiend]

Insulin rebound is responsible for the release of Growth Hormone, which is the key hormone responsible for the release of Insulin Growth Factor.

i thought insulin interfered with the release of GH?