The Biblical Believers....

[javaguru]

O'Reilly self pwnage....
O'Reilly Supports Atheism?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCdSyhlzBPg

 

[cindylou]

Who thinks the theists won the debate?

I still maintain my point of view ; I'm not really sure any of the info you have copy/pasted here would change my mind. Its nothing I have not heard before. lol

Though I'm sure the purpose of this thread was to somehow win the minds of people reading this thread, promote your point of view ; instead of discuss different points of view so we can all understand eachother.

I think the Christian church in general is unfairly hated becasue many claim to be Christians...are not!

Christians are not: shady politicians , the abortion doctor killers, the people who protest funerals, racists, haters, money lovers, selfish, prideful, people who condem gays, war lovers; all of these traits are not Christian at all. Making their own rules for what is "Christian" behavior and what is not "Christian" behavior out of their own man made rules, than what is set in the bible.

Its really hard (for me) to debate the existance of God. Probably because its difficult, I may not be intelligent enough; and there are fallacys on both sides. We just go around in circles. In my attempt to not sound like I'm "trying to win your soul" (which I'm not) I can easily end up with my head in knots becasue its not very "Christian like" of me to not care about your soul (see where I'm going?) I'm not really sure if this argument was about the existance of God or just trying to smear the bible believers. Not really sure what you are doing?

I still feel like you have posted your opinion ; and thats all it is opinion. and I have mine.

I just always feel uneasy ; and I dont want to say the wrong thing because being a Christian offends so many....... The idea that there are Christians out there angers and offends you. I can tell. Yet you dont anger and offend me??

 

[javaguru]

cindylou, this is Christianity from its own teachings.... this is not a loving God...No moral person can defend the actions of the old testament god.

Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)

Exodus, Chapter 34, verses 11-14


You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9

The Bible contains many references to infanticide. In idol worship, people (including Israel and Judah) sacrificed their own children (1 Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 16:3; 17:17; Jer. 7:31; 19:5; 32:35; 33:6; Ezek. 16:20-21). In war (even in holy war), entire cities/nations of people were sometimes killed (Num. 21:35; 31:17; 1 Sam. 15:3; 2 Sam. 22:19), including infants. Also, in Jeremiah 19:9 we read that God threatened to afflict his people so greatly that they would eat their own children, and in Lamentations 4:10 we have an indication that this may actually have come to pass. Then of course we have the famous stories of kings who kill infants in order to control threats to their kingdom (Exod. 1:22; Matt. 2:16; Acts 7:19). God himself killed all the firstborn of Egypt at one time, among which were certainly many children (Exod. 12:29), not to mention the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19), or the much more terrible flood of Noah's day (Gen. 6-9).

 

[javaguru]

Christians are not: shady politicians , the abortion doctor killers, the people who protest funerals, racists, haters, money lovers, selfish, prideful, people who condem gays, war lovers; all of these traits are not Christian at all. Making their own rules for what is "Christian" behavior and what is not "Christian" behavior out of their own man made rules, than what is set in the bible.

Can you defend the old testament cindylou???? Based on the Christians' teachings they are genocidal and infanticidal....

 

[cindylou]

Can you defend the old testament cindylou???? Based on the Christians' teachings they are genocidal and infanticidal....

Okay Java. First off what is your opinion of war? Is killing always wrong?? In every situation?

Its okay if you think so ; but I'm trying to figure out what you are getting at here ; we are talking about a war........do you believe that killing in war (even children, I know what you are getting at) is wrong?

 

[cindylou]

cindylou, this is Christianity from its own teachings.... this is not a loving God...No moral person can defend the actions of the old testament god.

Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)

Exodus, Chapter 34, verses 11-14


You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9

The Bible contains many references to infanticide. In idol worship, people (including Israel and Judah) sacrificed their own children (1 Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 16:3; 17:17; Jer. 7:31; 19:5; 32:35; 33:6; Ezek. 16:20-21). In war (even in holy war), entire cities/nations of people were sometimes killed (Num. 21:35; 31:17; 1 Sam. 15:3; 2 Sam. 22:19), including infants. Also, in Jeremiah 19:9 we read that God threatened to afflict his people so greatly that they would eat their own children, and in Lamentations 4:10 we have an indication that this may actually have come to pass. Then of course we have the famous stories of kings who kill infants in order to control threats to their kingdom (Exod. 1:22; Matt. 2:16; Acts 7:19). God himself killed all the firstborn of Egypt at one time, among which were certainly many children (Exod. 12:29), not to mention the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19), or the much more terrible flood of Noah's day (Gen. 6-9).

JAVA - What is moral???


i'll do my best!!

 

[javaguru]

JAVA - What is moral???


i'll do my best!!

Genocide and infanticide are not traits one would associate with a moral being.

 

[WODIN]

Its clear because he does not force us to worship him ; nor does he force us to be with him in heaven. As far as I know there it does not say in the bible that God does not want anyone who does not want him. Thats a conclusion I made based on the fact that he lets us choose.

The Gift of God is that a gift. It's given which means you have to take it. You are not born with it.

Should I have said that God does not WANT java?? No. Of course he does. God/ devine being who created something would not want to be seperated from his child. But God does not want to force java worship him or accept the gift of his son. Thats what I should have said I guess.

Thats what you all want, right? Its pretty clear in the bible that you can accept or reject him. You can reject ; I can accept? Do we have to hate eachother because we made different choices?? Do we have to try and convince others otherwise? Or try to make them falter in their faith? If that be faith of God or not? Why would you want that? Many people find meaning and purpose in their lives by worhsipping God; just like one guy might find meaning in his life with his job / wife / car etc.

We all look for meaning/ purpose/ truth. If you say there is no God who defines that purpose for us ; you will still look for meaning. You will devote your love to other things ; trying to find that meaning.

All I was saying is that I'm not going to sit here and tell Java about the fire of hell. The ultimate punishment for rejecting Christ is just that: distance from God ; a God he wants no part of.

He knows this. He's out on a mission to change everyone else to believe what he belives ; stating that religion is somehow detremental or bad for society ; when its not religion or GOD. It's the selfish people who misuse it.

How could having one being ; person ; who could give us an absolute truth be bad for society? I mean ; we cannot logically come up with absolute truth on our own? A set of morals for everyone? What determines what is right or wrong if there is not God? What happens then?

Christians don't bother me. Hypocrites do for some reason.

I'm a Buddhist so its something I'm working through....

 

[ceo]

Christians don't bother me. Hypocrites do for some reason.

agreed!

 

[javaguru]

Dawkins discusses morality....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ9JMUFIVqE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJLqDSfv6dU