Learning something new everyday...

[MS]

Well this is my first read of this thread, and I'm not clear on everything that's going on. Do you have a goal in mind? I mean, 18%bf isn't exactly fat for a woman! I am similar to you in that I go from 8(ish)% bf to 16-18%bf after a competition. I consider this 'normal' rebound weight gain and don't worry about it until I'm gonna compete again. Now when I decide to start dieting for a competition then I have to get strict with my diet. Just watching what I eat and eating clean won't get me there. I NEED that definite goal/deadline to lose the fat. And I have noticed most 'natural' women find it harder to lose the fat each time they diet. Maybe the winny will help in this respect? But if you don't have a specific goal in mind then staying lean will be very hard.

What does your diet look like right now (excluding the unplanned ice cream attacks)?

One other thing that a lot of people don't understand about %bf which can throw folks.....at 170lbs 18%bf you're carrying around 32 lbs of fat. Your friend may be 26% bf, but only 130lbs dripping wet (or less). She would be carrying 32 lbs of fat as well. If she is your height and you both carry the same thickness of subcutaneous fat over your muscles, then guess who's gonna look fatter? You are! And I am It's not a pleasant feeling for sure, but you musn't let it get to you. You're strong, fit and healthy. Be happy.

So......when's your next show??

 

[Sassy69]

MS - yes, definitely I DO appreciate where I am - I could be 350 w/ a heart condition. My frustration is that I follow the diet/training regimen but no results. I consider myself a "victim" of overtraining. Had a trainer who taught me much better posing and definitely gave me more thickness & mass, but also didn't adjust his usual diet/cardio to match my needs - carbs LOVE me. Maybe the biggest thing I missed from my competitions was a solid, reliable support system around me. (But that's another topic.)

As far as my goals - being fairly new to the whole competition thing, I have realized that it is a long prep process and better done on maybe a 6 month schedule instead of a 4 month schedule since I haven't achieved a lower maintenance weight yet. I would like to do another competition either by the end of this year or early next year. I would like to compete around 138 lb, 7-8 % bf. In the shorter term, just to be happy with my body again, and also as a starting point to approach competition shape, I want to be around 145-150 lb, 12-14% BF. So actually, I don't really have that far to go - but it just isn't budging at all. I've never been this heavy before, so its definitely not my usual "plateau". Seems like my metabolism is just "stuck" at the moment.

I am frustrated with the whole thing, but it is also getting me to look more closely at the chemistry and physiology of what is going on - and damn, am I learning lots....!

(Now if only I could toss this cold..... )

~ sassy

 

[skydancer]

I can relate!! I've been gaining muscle over the past year but BF is staying the same seemingly no matter what I do.

Looking at your sample diet...how many calories is that? Perhaps your body is rebelling against too little calories for too long? I've just begin to cycle my calorie intake...2 weeks at a low calorie rate, 2 weeks at a high calorie rate. This is reported to help keep your body guessing so it doesn't adapt to your caloric intake...

You might try it...its too soon for me to tell if its working or not but I'll keep you posted.

 

[Fennec]

I think Skydancer may be right - that doesn't look like enough calories for your height & weight. Have you tried having a good trainer/nutritionist evaluate your diet recently?

Also, you're eating clean, you're training hard, but are you getting in your cardio? When you do cardio, do you feel like it's a pretty high amount of effort you are putting out? How much cardio are you doing per/week?

And if those ice-cream, coke, and peanut butter slips are happening regularly (like every day?), and your calories ARE too low, your body is grabbing every chance to store it away.... I went through that vicious cycle for a good long time.

Hang in there! I just got over being sick too, so I feel for ya!

Fennec

 

[Sassy69]

hi fennec

yea being sick sucks big time - i think I'm treating myself to a good workout tomorrow finally!

Its hard to include the whole menu, training, etc. in a single post - I have been following a menu that is variations of the same one I have used in early stages of contest prep for about a year now. (I.e. blessed by 3 diff trainers) And more importantly, I've been following it since 6 months ago when I expected to see some body fat loss - or at least since then. Also cardio has been 5-6 45 min sessions / week plus roughly 3 days on , one day off of lifting. In the last 2 months I've moved some of that cardio to empty stomach early morning cardio, up to 60 min when I have the time (per Lobo's 30 + 30 NOT = 60 post!).

Granted the consistency of all this has been good for like 3 weeks at a time, then I get frustrated, plus a near loss this week (sick)... I definitely experienced major overtraining at the end of December - so I'm wondering what is the extent of the recovery period. Hopefully getting blood test results back after Memorial Day to verify nothing weird is going on physically. Then, dammit, I'll quit whining about it and just do it!



But it does suck when it just doesn't work like you expect it to. So patience, good friends and constant focus will bring back to where I want to be. (Starting to sound like the AA prayer...) But its true....

Thx for your input tho! Here's a toast to all the sis's and bros who keep the faith! (raises a glass of fizzing creatine with a zero carb protein mix chaser...)

~ sassy

 

[MS]

Sassy, I've had to read this post several times to try and figure out what's going on. It WOULD help if you posted all those obnoxious details about diet. But if I read this right, you've been "dieting" for a long time. If that's true then I can assure you that you're body has stopped responding to the diet. In this case you will need to increase your calories, probably drop your cardio (I recommend sprint intervals as a replacement) and basically stop "dieting" for a while until your body recovers from all the stress and trauma it's been through. Stopping your diet does not mean you eat anything and everything you want! It just means that you eat all you want of unprocessed, unsalted and in season whole foods. Try to limit you grain intake, especially in the second half of the day. Other than that eat what your body asks for. But I would still like to see what your current diet is like (I'm nosey and want to know what other trainer's are giving a thumbs up to).

 

[Temple]

MS - as you know I took off 50# last year and then the weight loss stalled out. IG told me to take my caloric intake to 2500 per day which I split into 250g protein, 188g carbs, 83g fat, I was going to do 2 days per week of 60 min moderate cardio with that but ended up doing no cardio and just eating and lifting my butt off. After the initial God awful water weight gain and a fat gain of a couple of pound my body stabilized, the water weight came off, strength went thru the roof and I felt like a new woman. I added 10mg of anavar about 7 weeks into that so I am a bit different and I started from a different place than what we are talking about here but my point is that after about 13 weeks on alot of calories I have now added 4 days of cardio in and my body is responding quite well without changing the diet. It has been rough as I was working my tail off and watching the scale go the wrong way and the clothes get tighter but I really think in the end I will end up leaner with more calories and less effort in the cardio department than if I had kept trying to force my body to do it on 1500 calories a day.

 

[Sassy69]

obnoxious details...

hey MS, Temple, all - thx for the responses. (I've been sick all week so I've been a little slow at getting around to things...)

Training:
generally lift about 2 days on / 1 day off

Cardio:
2-3 morning sessions (empty stomach)/week, 45 min
3-4 45 min sessions after lifting if not done in the morning
1-2 60 min sessions on non lifting days

Diet: (typical day)
7 am
- 5 egg whites (85 cal, 17.5g P, 1.5g C 0 F)
(or substitute 1 scoop protein mix (100 cal, 25g P, 0 C, 0 F)
- 1/2 c oatmeal (130 cal, 5g P, 23g C, 2.5g F)
+ vitamins

11 am
- 5 oz chicken (160 cal, 32g P, 0 C, 4g F)
- 2 cup spinach (24 cal, 2.5g P, 4g C, 0 F)
- 1 tbsp flax seed oil & vinegar (135 cal, 135g F)

2 pm
- nonfat plain yogurt (substituting for cottage cheese)
(140 cal, 11g P, 23g C, 0 F)
- protein mix (Isopure) (200 cal, 50g P, 0 C, 0 F)

5 pm
- 5 oz chicken (160 cal, 32g P, 0 C, 4g F)
- 2 c broccoli (48 cal, 5g P, 9g C, 1g F)
- salsa (2 g C)
- 4 oz sweet potato (118 cal, 2g P, 28g C, 0 F)

(sometimes a protein bar if starving on the drive home -
270 cal, 30 g P, 7g C, 5 gF)

<workout + cardio (alt w/ AM cardio)>

8/9 pm
- protein mix (200 cal, 50g P, 0 C, 0 F)
- 4 oz sweet potato (118 cal, 2g P, 28g C, 0 F)

11-12 midnight
- 4-5 egg whites if hungry (85 cal, 17.5g P, 1.5g C 0 F)
- optional 1 c broccoli (24 cal, 2.5g P, 4.5g C, 0.5g F)


Totals: 1787 cal, 259g P, 130g C, 151g F
------------------
And about 1.5 - 2 gal water / day

And get this! Getting down to like 5-6 diet cokes per WEEK!!!!!! (Got a great iced tea maker for xmas!)

One of the questions I have had is what are the long-term effects of overtraining? I've read that it can take weeks to months to "recover", with symptoms of depression, "slowed" thyroid, etc - though I haven't really found much on the topic... That's what my trip to the doc was for.

That's about it. Changed up my training last week to go more sets and more reps/lighter weights, upped some of the cardio to 60 min when I have the time.

Past experience and common sense say to just keep the diet more strict, but the hard part is I'm not really in contest prep, so just eating like a normal person is a challenge for me as I was in "contest prep" for 8 months last year and floundering around this year. Food is definitely my "crutch" when I get bummed out - so my short term goal is to stop that and relax about the diet a little (not the food schedule, just less obsessing about it) and work on getting to bed earlier so I can make those AM cardio sessions!

~ sassy

 

[Sassy69]

Bump for comments... anyone?

 

[MS]

Just quickly eyeballing your diet I get about 23g fat all up. I would rather see you inrease your fat and drop your carbs or protein. Your calories are also pretty low overall at around 10 cals per pound. Considering how much exercise you're doing, I think you may need more cals. I still think you should take a break from 'dieting' and just eat clean foods as your body dictates. Cut back on the cardio and increase weight training. At the rate you're going, you'll be unable to lose fat come time for your next show because you'll have nothing up your sleeve to trick your metabolism with. My $0.02