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Good reasons for a once-a-week split
- Thread starter SteelWeaver
- Start date
"Someday it might be nice if you could get off your smug little PhD-induced high horses and actually HELP somebody out. "
Ouch.....what did I say?
Sounds like we have a lot of horses high on estrogen here lately with some of these attack threads. Damn, this is getting to be like the guys board but with etiquette.
and Hannibal
I'm NOT interested in 3-a-day practices
I'm AM interested in undertraining, and
I'm NOT interested in changing my choice to be a meat eater.
I'm AM interested in any shortcuts I can get at my age.
"aaawww come W6...you are getting slow. I was expecting to get up today and have an "extra orifice" torn for me."
How was that?
and....lighten up Steel and a few others, there's no need to take this stuff so seriously. It's starting to get as ugly as some of the arguments at the National ACSM meetings.
W6
Ouch.....what did I say?
Sounds like we have a lot of horses high on estrogen here lately with some of these attack threads. Damn, this is getting to be like the guys board but with etiquette.
and Hannibal
I'm NOT interested in 3-a-day practices
I'm AM interested in undertraining, and
I'm NOT interested in changing my choice to be a meat eater.
I'm AM interested in any shortcuts I can get at my age.
"aaawww come W6...you are getting slow. I was expecting to get up today and have an "extra orifice" torn for me."
How was that?
and....lighten up Steel and a few others, there's no need to take this stuff so seriously. It's starting to get as ugly as some of the arguments at the National ACSM meetings.
W6
N
new@gettinbig
Guest
We make such simple things so complex!
Whatever, as Wilson6 says, lighten up. I can honestly say I've only seen photos of 2 women on this board that I thought had exceptional physiques. Both were achieved with a combo of once-a-week splits, plus AAS and great genetics and diet. I know this for a fact because they both posted details of their diet, gear and training. Oops, I'd forgotten about W6's natioanl level client. So that makes 3. I assume if it was one of W6's clients, then she was prolly also on a weekly split (but W6 will correct if wrong). So whoever your women that have made great gains on your program are, they have yet to catch my eye. I'll bet you hard cash that if they could survive even one of my quad workouts (without AAS in their system) they wouldn't be feeling like hitting quads again for at least a week, and even then they'd no doubt feel inclined to go for a lighter session. The very fact that the human body is so adaptable works against bodybuilders IMHO. Bodybuilding is about the only soprt I know of where you aim to NOT adapt (unlike football/powerlifting/strongman comps etc...). So if you're recovering very quickly it's time to change things up again. That's my philosophy in a nutshell. My philosophy doesn't preclude a 3xday training split working for you, or anyone else. I know several pros personally, and they all do 2xday short burst splits, and do this 5-6 times each week, but even then they are not working the same bodypart every day. They are also 'bulking' and taking a s**tload of gear. I know for certain that once every 5-10 days of extreme intensity works for me and most (not all) of the female natty and low dose AAS clients I've supervised for bodybuilding gains. So bottom line would be that if Steel were under my supervision, she would do well on a weekly split, and if Hannibal was her coach, she may do as well under multiple training sessions per day? You can't say once a week doesn't work though, when you see clients such as Wilson6's gal doing so well on it. I don't care if your last name IS Siff..........
It sounds like we all agree on one thing-it doesn't sound like SteelWeaver is overtraining at the moment.
As for the estrogen problem on the board at the moment, I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the high calorie, high fat and carb intake that a lot of us have been indulging in the last week or two (not to mention alcohol is very estrogenic).
It sounds like we all agree on one thing-it doesn't sound like SteelWeaver is overtraining at the moment.
As for the estrogen problem on the board at the moment, I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the high calorie, high fat and carb intake that a lot of us have been indulging in the last week or two (not to mention alcohol is very estrogenic).
Ok...people seem to have taken this thread personally so I am done with it. This is why I tend to shy away from discussion about "overtraining". Nothing that I said was meant in a confrontational way...if I want that I'll jump in the shark tank with everyone else on the Chat Board.
I also NEVER said that the once a week split would not work. Truth be told just about every program that you can imagine will work for a little while. However if you could do more work and make more gains. Dont you think that would be the quicker path to where you wanted to go?
Using myself, and some of the people I have helped here was not bragging or anything of the sort. Just showing of examples people that have trained high volume and made great gains. Using Dr. Siff as a reference was just an effort to cover my ass, so to speak, nothing else.
BOTTOM LINE: My point that I guess I failed to get across, as people took what I said the wrong way, was once a week was NOT the only way to go. That high volume does NOT immediately mean overtraining. And that some people need to "free their mind" so to speak as to what the body can accomplish naturally.
The part that makes me laugh about this thread is that someone would tell me to lighten up...now thats funny
I also NEVER said that the once a week split would not work. Truth be told just about every program that you can imagine will work for a little while. However if you could do more work and make more gains. Dont you think that would be the quicker path to where you wanted to go?
Using myself, and some of the people I have helped here was not bragging or anything of the sort. Just showing of examples people that have trained high volume and made great gains. Using Dr. Siff as a reference was just an effort to cover my ass, so to speak, nothing else.
BOTTOM LINE: My point that I guess I failed to get across, as people took what I said the wrong way, was once a week was NOT the only way to go. That high volume does NOT immediately mean overtraining. And that some people need to "free their mind" so to speak as to what the body can accomplish naturally.
The part that makes me laugh about this thread is that someone would tell me to lighten up...now thats funny
SteelWeaver
New member
LOL. OK, OK, I get the message. W6, MS - I'm sorry I lashed out like that at you. It was uncalled-for and misdirected. I kind of snapped - not carb or alcohol-induced - I've been quite good about eating clean. It's more my frustration that I'm in pain and can't train in the 2 weeks of the year when I can actually sleep for 10 hours a night if I like!
There's also the fact that I was labouring under the delusion yesterday morning that my 3-year relationship was in tatters, and that I was looking at spending the most depressing New Year's eve of my life. Now if you want to talk about oestrogen overload ... try a lesbian break-up on New Year's eve.
The good news is, it was simply my pride and stubbornness getting in the way of a make-up, so once I dropped them and tried communicating, love conquered all (sappy romantic violin music in background).
So, forgive me. I respect the opinions of both of you greatly, and appreciate almost any input you have, so I just felt hurt when it seemed you were dissing me. I do take my training etc. VERY seriously (too seriously for my gf, apparently), so I'll try lightening up a little on the boards and hitting harder in the gym and nutrition-wise, since I guess that's where I'll do most of the learning that pertains to my own responses.
You are, of course, correct, MS, when you say there is only so much detailed help one can get over the internet. It doesn't make it any less frustrating, but it is true, I know. Every little bit helps, though - each new piece fills out the puzzle a little more.
And I lied when I said I'm not interested in shortcuts - of course I am interested in shortcuts - just not the AAS/surgery type. We're all searching for the big Golden Key in one way or another.
Other good news is the acupuncturist who treated my back also does massage, and said she can introduce me to a proper sports masseur and/or acupuncturist. I figure undergoing this type of treatment, which is quite common and not so expensive here, regularly, could aid in recovery and help prevent future injuries. And once you have contacts in the sports world it's easier to find qualified people of all stripes, so I may luck out on a trainer.
Like BigEasy said - there are so many variables - each new one of which I discover significantly multiplies my frustration at not having more experience. I'd like to someday be at the point in my own progress where I can say with confidence, oh, that variable is not so important, or this one will do this, or whatever. It seems you can only read so much, then it's trial and error.
As for my training, I think I'm going to try 6 weeks or so on a weekly split, simply because I can't maintain intensity for the length of my current workouts (1.5 hours or so, longer for legs). At the same time I'll try to kick up the intensity. If I stay with the 3-day split I'll have to lower the volume to shorten the workouts, but I don't think I have the mental conditioning yet to perform intensely enough on a low-volume plan. I've only just started finding out what intensity really is, and would like to really focus on that for a while.
However, Hannibal, I'd be very interested to see what your plan usually involves, for future reference and experimentation. May I PM or e-mail you?
Thank you, everyone, for your input. Sorry again about my tantrum, and a happy New Year to you all! Really!
There's also the fact that I was labouring under the delusion yesterday morning that my 3-year relationship was in tatters, and that I was looking at spending the most depressing New Year's eve of my life. Now if you want to talk about oestrogen overload ... try a lesbian break-up on New Year's eve.
The good news is, it was simply my pride and stubbornness getting in the way of a make-up, so once I dropped them and tried communicating, love conquered all (sappy romantic violin music in background).
So, forgive me. I respect the opinions of both of you greatly, and appreciate almost any input you have, so I just felt hurt when it seemed you were dissing me. I do take my training etc. VERY seriously (too seriously for my gf, apparently), so I'll try lightening up a little on the boards and hitting harder in the gym and nutrition-wise, since I guess that's where I'll do most of the learning that pertains to my own responses.
You are, of course, correct, MS, when you say there is only so much detailed help one can get over the internet. It doesn't make it any less frustrating, but it is true, I know. Every little bit helps, though - each new piece fills out the puzzle a little more.
And I lied when I said I'm not interested in shortcuts - of course I am interested in shortcuts - just not the AAS/surgery type. We're all searching for the big Golden Key in one way or another.
Other good news is the acupuncturist who treated my back also does massage, and said she can introduce me to a proper sports masseur and/or acupuncturist. I figure undergoing this type of treatment, which is quite common and not so expensive here, regularly, could aid in recovery and help prevent future injuries. And once you have contacts in the sports world it's easier to find qualified people of all stripes, so I may luck out on a trainer.
Like BigEasy said - there are so many variables - each new one of which I discover significantly multiplies my frustration at not having more experience. I'd like to someday be at the point in my own progress where I can say with confidence, oh, that variable is not so important, or this one will do this, or whatever. It seems you can only read so much, then it's trial and error.
As for my training, I think I'm going to try 6 weeks or so on a weekly split, simply because I can't maintain intensity for the length of my current workouts (1.5 hours or so, longer for legs). At the same time I'll try to kick up the intensity. If I stay with the 3-day split I'll have to lower the volume to shorten the workouts, but I don't think I have the mental conditioning yet to perform intensely enough on a low-volume plan. I've only just started finding out what intensity really is, and would like to really focus on that for a while.
However, Hannibal, I'd be very interested to see what your plan usually involves, for future reference and experimentation. May I PM or e-mail you?
Thank you, everyone, for your input. Sorry again about my tantrum, and a happy New Year to you all! Really!
SteelWeaver
New member
Aw, now Hannibal, don't go away. Your input is just as valuable/valid as anyone else's. The one thing that seems to come through loud and clear on these boards is that no one technique or system works all the time for everyone. That doesn't mean that debate should stop, though. Without debate and discussion we may as well go out and buy burqa. And referencing arguments with solid research always helps. I haven't heard of Dr Siff, but then, I haven't heard of a lot of people. OK, research paper flame wars are pretty pointless, but if the discussion is kept rational and civil ...
It seems to me (and this thread in particular has helped me discover it) that one just has to learn as much as one can from research etc., and then try everything that seems reasonable until you develop a system. And if others can help out with what they already know or have tried, great.
I suppose it's a human trait for people to fall into the trap of believing that once something works for them personally, they have "THE SYSTEM", the Golden Key to the universe, the open ear of God. And even if you don't do that, sometimes the expression of an opinion is taken by others to mean that it is your final word on the matter, particularly if you understandably omit to post your disclaimer. I don't think anyone here is that closed, though, otherwise I would've probably got more specific advice. lol.
I'm not going to comment on MS's comments, but from what I glean from other posts of hers, she's used to seeing lots of high calibre bodies, and has been training for years and years, so, I guess, naturally her standards are high. I've lately had to force myself not to look at Ms O competitors too much, for example, because most naturals look so scrawny after that. It's just what you're used to.
Anyway, I'm rambling horribly now. My main point is, don't shy away from expressing your opinions/experience if you believe they're valid, because, at the least, they will help to educate people like me! Ultimately one wants to try and stay open to other viewpoints, simply because that seems to be a good way to keep learning. And I think most people here will at least agree with that!
It seems to me (and this thread in particular has helped me discover it) that one just has to learn as much as one can from research etc., and then try everything that seems reasonable until you develop a system. And if others can help out with what they already know or have tried, great.
I suppose it's a human trait for people to fall into the trap of believing that once something works for them personally, they have "THE SYSTEM", the Golden Key to the universe, the open ear of God. And even if you don't do that, sometimes the expression of an opinion is taken by others to mean that it is your final word on the matter, particularly if you understandably omit to post your disclaimer. I don't think anyone here is that closed, though, otherwise I would've probably got more specific advice. lol.
I'm not going to comment on MS's comments, but from what I glean from other posts of hers, she's used to seeing lots of high calibre bodies, and has been training for years and years, so, I guess, naturally her standards are high. I've lately had to force myself not to look at Ms O competitors too much, for example, because most naturals look so scrawny after that. It's just what you're used to.
Anyway, I'm rambling horribly now. My main point is, don't shy away from expressing your opinions/experience if you believe they're valid, because, at the least, they will help to educate people like me! Ultimately one wants to try and stay open to other viewpoints, simply because that seems to be a good way to keep learning. And I think most people here will at least agree with that!
"and Hannibal...........
I'm NOT interested in 3-a-day practices
I'm AM interested in undertraining, and
I'm NOT interested in changing my choice to be a meat eater.
I'm AM interested in any shortcuts I can get at my age."
It was a joke, I just picked up Steel's rant and rolled with it, with some modifications of course.
Whether we agree on training principles isn't the point, what is important is that all our methods are put forth so others can view them. As I said earlier, do what works for you or the people you train. But, as with ACSM conferences, be ready for others to cross-examine you (sometimes harshly) and defend their methods. Sometimes that is what brings out the necessary details of a program and gets us all to think. It ain't personal, it's business.
W6
I'm NOT interested in 3-a-day practices
I'm AM interested in undertraining, and
I'm NOT interested in changing my choice to be a meat eater.
I'm AM interested in any shortcuts I can get at my age."
It was a joke, I just picked up Steel's rant and rolled with it, with some modifications of course.
Whether we agree on training principles isn't the point, what is important is that all our methods are put forth so others can view them. As I said earlier, do what works for you or the people you train. But, as with ACSM conferences, be ready for others to cross-examine you (sometimes harshly) and defend their methods. Sometimes that is what brings out the necessary details of a program and gets us all to think. It ain't personal, it's business.
W6
wilson6 said:
Obviously it was a joke...didnt bother me in the least. And my post about you being slow to "tear me a new one" was a joke as well. Thats why I found it funny that someone would tell me to lighten up.
The reason I tend to avoid discussions about 'overtraining", besides the fact that I dont really believe in it.....is that a majority of the time people already have their mind made up. There is a certain number of sets per week, per bodypart...and if you go over that then you must be overtraining...and if you make gains you must be "assisted". And people like this tend to spend so much time tryin to get their point across that they never really listen to new ideas.....and tryin to convince them to even listen is a big waste. At least that has been my experience in the past. That is why I am very quick to "throw up my hands" on this topic.
Will once a week work....of course. Is it optimal...I do not believe that it is. Like I said before if you can do more work in less time and make more gains.....then IMO that is a better choice. As mortals.... TIME is a luxury that we do not have.
"The body becomes its function"
VooDoo Lady
New member
LMFAO!!!!! Damn Steelweaver you KILL me!
Your pain was pretty evident through your posts...I'm glad that things worked out for you
Happy New Year!!! Good luck cutting girl!
VDL
