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genezapharmateuticals
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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
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for CoolColJ and other jumpers

ZGzaZ

New member
I'd like to change my leg day sometime in the future to a leg day to help increase my vertical with some more explosive evercises...can you give me a good routine, currently it looks like:

Squats 5x5
Hacks 2x10
Seated Calf Raises 5x15
Stiff Legged Deads 2x10
Leg Curls 2x10
and abs...

I'm of course going to keep squats in there, but need to put in some other excercises for the vert..
 
Hmm... CoolCol and I disagree on this, I believe... I don't think that SLAMMING the weights heavy and hard will necessarily improve your vert jump OR leap.

If that is your routine, I'd definately hit standing calves ... making sure to get a good squeeze at the top... one legged at that. It was one of my most fundamental "weight" exercises in Track at IU. I also did alot of leg curls.

Plyo plyo plyo... like I said in another post, I'm going to write up a big report/study on Plyometrics and how they can be used to increase speed, strength, agility and of course jumping ability. It shoudl be pretty informative and contain all the aspects BEHIND the training as well.

C-ditty
 
C, I follow needsizes routine very closely...and standing calf raises go on chest day for 5x15, the seated are on leg day 5x15, so they are hit 2x per week...and when that plyo report is done, let me get a copy ;)
 
you need jump squats in there, and lots of hip extension moves, lower back stuff like back extensions.

Leg curls and calf raises are useless for vert , you need hip extension hamstring moves, and calves only contribute 5-10% of a jump if that, and plyos take care of their strength anyway since you land and jump from the balls of yoru foot while doing plyos.

You need both the limit strength side of the muscles, and the speed strength side. You can't have high power levels without high strength.
5x5 will develope the limit strength side, and then you need to do explosive squats with 40-60% of your 1RM etc. Stick to 6-8 sets of 3 for these, with rest periods of 1-4mins. Longer rest as you tire.

explosive partial standing deadlifts with help too, explosive hyper/back extensions . Lots of ab work
Stepups, jumping box squats and so on. lots of stuff.
Snatch grip deadlifts, hang cleans, med ball vertical jump throws
Once you get a good strength base, then add plyos and then later on depth jumps.


vert thread
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137641

also every rep has to be hyper acclerated, wetehr the eight is heavy or light you musty shove it as hard as you can. Don't jam the bar off yoru back or hyperextend the joint however. The act of doing this will recruit the fast twitch fibers, and condition your CNS to maximally recruit fibers and improve starting strength. Like the say train fast to be fast - the CNS is an important component of training for performance .
 
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No problem on the plyo report dude :)

Cool Col... useless??? you NEED jump squats?? That's nonsense... :)

I'll have you know the STAPLE of my leg workout was my calf routine... it provided the much needed spring that was required for me to flop over the bar at over 7'. I agree to a point that leg extensions might not be as valuable... but leg curls... ok.

I'm telling you dooood... from my 4 years of experience in the high jumping game, that jumping with weights shit... it's not NECESSARY.. hey, if you want to do it, that's fine... :)

C-ditty
 
high jumping is nothing like vertical jumping, and none of the current athletes would be ccaught doing leg curls ;)

Man does not live on depth jumps alone, remeber it is only one part of the wheel - you need high levels of absolute strength (squats, deadlifts etc), starting strength (oly lifts from blocks, box squats, deadlifts), acclerating strength (olys lifts and jump squats), reactive strength (plyos, oly lifts from the hang, depth jumps, jump squats) etc

I'm not the only one, lots of Russian athletes did it, lots of oly lifters do it, and you should know plyos came from Russia.
And in case you didn't realise jump squats are plyometric.

Remeber everything is cumulative, every component builds on the other, the sum is greater than the parts.

And another thing - a person who can jump higher from weights, oly lifts, plyos and jump squats will tear right through a person who only does plyos - dominate him in every single way and dunk right on his ass :p

I like to think of muscles as an engine in the car, sure with plyos might have a little bit of power from higher reving and lighter internal engine components.
But I got more torque from bigger capacity engine (weights), better engine managment computer (oly lifts) and a turbo (speed/strength exercises, jump squats and depth jumps )
 
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http://www.intensitymagazine.com/11-27-01/the_foundation.html

THE FOUNDATION
by Chris Korfist

"Always be careful of what you jump into." I am not referring to the warning that your mother says to you as you writhe in pain after having jumped into something. I am referring to everyone's "missing link" in athletic development—plyometrics, or to others, shock training. As I read forums, talk to coaches and athletes this seemingly simple concept always comes up in conversation. If you are strong but you can't run good 40s or get good starts, there is of course an easy solution—start doing Plyometrics. If a team has speed and they don't look as though they should possess it, there is again an easy explanation—they have trained using Plyometrics. However, I think this easy solution is not so easy. In fact, I believe it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of training here in America.

I believe Plyometrics were introduced to the United States back in the 70s. Soviet sprinters were dominating the Olympic fields and U.S. coaches wanted to know why. So in the mid-1960s a bunch of U.S. coaches traveled to the USSR to observe their workouts with hope of finding the "missing link" in their training. One of the activities they observed was an athlete stepping off a box, hitting the ground and jumping up. This of course was the visual interpretation of Verkhoshansky's "shock training." And according to a story I believe I heard from Mel Siff, the Soviets thought they would have some fun with the Americans and convince them that their athletes do this exercise from a 10-foot height. The American coaches returned to the U.S. and started spreading the word about their new discovery. Of course, nobody pays any attention to the other aspects of their training and the tremendous base level training that was performed. Word spreads, Don Chu writes some books, and suddlenly American athletes in search of speed are dropping out of the sky everywhere and trying to rebound into a jump; most limp away with broken ankles or struggle to understand why they didn't achieve the same level of success as the great Soviet sprinter Valeri Borzov. If you talk to a Russian or a South African, they laugh and tell you this is the American way because we have taken a small part of a enormous Soviet training system and created a giant monster.

I think the first problem comes from general misunderstanding of where we borrowed the system. The USSR had a complicated system of developing athletes. They started when the athletes were young and placed the hopefuls in a multi-year program that built volume and technique over time. They were patient. So when their athletes were 18 years of age, they already had 6 years of solid training that was scientifically planned. Once these athletes reached a certain level, somewhere between the age of 18-20 depending on their strength deficit, they might have started shock training. All aspects of the depth jump, such has breath control and footwear are closely monitored. Rest periods ranged as high as 4 minutes between a single rep to 15 minutes between sets. There was a plan. The Soviets did not randomly open a book and declare, "Comrades, today, we will begin plyometrics, whether you need them or not!" To confuse things further, American coaches have simplified the original complex system to fit into American training programs.

The second problem comes from the American application of the training. True plyometrics or shock training is the simple box jump. Time needs to be spent learning the step off the box. It is a relaxed fall and not a jump off the box. The focus of training is on quality and not quantity. In America, more is always better, so instead of doing 20 good jumps every 5-14 days depending on the cycle, an excited coach may do 100 jumps every other day. This is a sure recipe for injury. Also, if the research says that they are good and can make you faster, why not make every athlete in the program do them, even though they can't squat properly or broad jump without falling. Again, athletes need to be prepared to do these exercises in order for them to be effective.

So, am I advocating the abolition of plyometrics from your athletic training? Of course not—we utilize a precise and delicate solution to get the results we do. It depends on the program, the athletes and the coach. If you have a well-planned multi-year, multi-cycle program, I would recommend them at the end of your program; for example, at the end of the pre-competition phase in their Junior and senior year. If you have a multi-year program and your athletes have mastered various Olympic lifts and have a strong torso, then your athletes will probably benefit from the exercises. And if you are a coach that is willing to take the time to teach proper jumping form and have the patience to go through a proper workout, then I would recommend plyometrics. If you do not feel that you can address these issues in a positive manner, then stick to hopping and chain or band box squats but above and beyond all else, a long-term plan of attack will realize the results you yearn for.
 
CoolColJ said:
high jumping is nothing like vertical jumping, and none of the current athletes would be ccaught doing leg curls ;)


You lost me.

High jumping is nothing like vertical jumping... yet I trained on my vertical jump... day in and day out for 4 years... 6 if you count the two years I went to State in High School. Vertical is the KEY to high jumping... but you are right, it is MORE than just vertical jumping... it is centripetal force... it is body control, it is flexibility, it is the ability to have HANG TIME... :)

Have you ever watched a meet?? When jumpers do a RUN THROUGH.. we jump as high as we can near the bar... the goal, is to get your hips to the same height as the bar... that would mean an easy clear... anything less than that, you are going to have to pull some MAJOR arch on your flop...

But I'm digressing... Leg Curls are an excellant exercise if performed correctly... do not simply brush them aside...

You can quote me all the articles you want to, my mello... :) But for that time period, I trained with collegic athletes... for 2 summer, I trained with WORLD CLASS jumpers... so I'm guessing something of what I'm saying is correct... :)

C-ditty
 
so C, or Cool Col...for my leg day, give me a good routine to do, what you think would be best...
 
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