for all of you Atkin's Skeptics!

[zer0hmz]

Tetragamma | Pharmguy

My wife just started the Atkins diet. For convenience and supportive purposes, I'd like to join her, but would like to make sure it's "muscle-safe". I do live a healthy lifestyle and workout regularly.
It's refreshing to hear "real live" bodybuilders comment that it is good, and does not hamper results. Of course I do not expect to bulk up like a fiend, but my biggest concern is not to lose the muscle I've worked for and still allow me to continue growing, albeit at a slower rate.

So, with that said, would you confidently recommend this diet for someone in my situation?

Thanks for your input!

 

[variation]

ok, basically the point of atkins is ketosis, goal of ketosis is to use fat for energy, instead of carbs, so you limit carbohydrate consumption greatly, but... what does this do? you're not going to have any significant amounts of insulin present, and as we know, insulin is what stores nutrients, such a protein to muscle..
now if we aren't storing anything even close to significant amounts of protein as muscle, then how do you expect to gain muscle? I realize you said preserve, but let's consider some other factors.. while you'll burn bodyfat, you'll also burn muscle, though in theory less muscle than fat, and in actual results seen..
so making negligable gains, burning muscle = muscle loss.
While it is perhaps optimal to be in ketosis for periods of time for fat loss, it certainly is not optimal to be "ALL THE TIME" IMO this is why there are programs like CKD, even though 1 day carbup isn't going to give that much of an anabolic effect, so I think it's much more sensible to eat very low carbohydrate for, almost the whole time while cutting, I think it would be optimal, for one who is not especially active to even add in a protein shake + dextrose(for example) post workout.. insulin rises, you get an anabolic effect, and since all day you're eating low low carb, and you just did a hard workout, you're muscle/liver glycogen stores will be quite low, therefore these carbs have a place to go, rather than muscle/liver stores being full, and experiencing fat conversion from the carbohydrates...
then even a meal of carbohydrates can be had after that, for the common weightlifter I'd suggest something like 50/30/20 P/F/C and almost all those carbs after your workout.. however if you are more of an athlete or very active in some type of endeavour, more carbohydrates can be incorperated to fuel your higher intensity activities..
if there are days you do not weight train, then sure just follow common keto-like diet.

THAT'S MY TAKE ON THE WHOLE DEAL --- LIKE IT OR LOVE IT

 

[Stillgoing]

For me, when I learned how to diet with moderate fat rather than low fat (ie Atkins type diet - which bodybuilders figured out before he did, vs. old style low fat diet) I retained substantially more muscle than the low fat diets. Again, for me, its all about lowering carbs that takes fat off, keeping my fat intake higher does nothing to affect bodyfat loss, it simply allows me to hold more muscle than I otherwise could.

As I tell everyone that asks me questions about dieting: its the carbs that make me fat, not the fat.

 

[zer0hmz]

Stillgoing -
So you're suggesting it's "ok" to have moderate amounts of fat (versus low fat) as long as I don't over do it on the carbs?? Variation, what's your take on this approach?

I don't mean to start a squabble here, but both of you sound very knowledgable and would your input.

 

[variation]

Stillgoing -
So you're suggesting it's "ok" to have moderate amounts of fat (versus low fat) as long as I don't over do it on the carbs?? Variation, what's your take on this approach?

I don't mean to start a squabble here, but both of you sound very knowledgable and would your input.

ok basically, I'd say make all your meals till about 2 hours before workout about equal fat to protein or even a little less fat keep carbs very low here, you don't want plasma insulin levels to be very low, as to lower the chances of storing any fat (insulin does this) insulin is released from the pancrease when blood sugar rises.

Now after your workout hit the protein/dextrose shake to raise insulin and store the protein.
AFter this (maybe 60-90 minutes later) you'll have a carb/protein meal (VERY LOW FAT) it is probably even beneficial to use something like r-ala as a glucose disposal agent, as insulin isn't as important here.. you can get good r-ala from ulter & macro at anabolicfitness.com as I'm sure you already know..

However if you are involved in sports/athletics, I'd safe it's safe to consume a meal of carb/protein and fats 33/33/33 meal could work just fine here.. or even protein and carb a little higher than fats.

Now fats taken at any time I really suggest that you use good fats... poly/mono saturated fat real minimal, it's useless when you have better fats to choose from.

Monitor over all calories, and you'll find the right range to work with depending on activity levels/metabolism etc..
somewhere in the range of 12-15cal/lb is a good range to start in.

and on non training days, keep fats/protein relatively equal in meals IMO

 

[ripper2]

i did it about 2 springs ago (CKD style)... didn't count protein or fat. just shot for each time i ate to eat an equal # of grams of proteins and fats. aimed for 0 carbs each day (note AIMED, not ingested... i'd usually get about 20 or so). was real strict during the week. from friday night-saturday night i'd eat whatever i wanted, WHATEVER i wanted and as much as i wanted. then sunday - friday back on the diet. i lost about 30lbs WHILE packing on some solid muscle mass. i was amazed at my progress.

i think the ability to add muscle on a keto diet may be related to body type. i am an endo whereas an ecto may not have the same luck with the diet in terms of fatloss and musclegains.

 

[pharmguy]

So, with that said, would you confidently recommend this diet for someone in my situation?

I loost a lot of fat while adding muscle so yes I think it is very possible. But the caveat may be just like ripper said. I too am an endomorph. I put muscle on very easily. (I put fat on easily too.)
But I don't think you will lose muscle. Carbs are nothing more then an energy source. The way I see it, You need 4 things when building muscle:
1- A reason for them to grow( working out)
2- The building blocks to grow (protien)
3- energy( muscle or fat whether you eat it or its wrapped around your waste)
4- anabolic enviroment (testosterone, AAS)

PG

 

[Babyfaced Assassin]

However if you are involved in sports/athletics, I'd safe it's safe to consume a meal of carb/protein and fats 33/33/33 meal could work just fine here.. or even protein and carb a little higher than fats.

Yeah i'm guessing it's all dependant on the type of working out you do

 

[Burning_Inside]

how do you expect to gain any apreciable amount of muscle on it?

or if cutting, you'll loose muscle...

no flame intended but I don't think it's a very good diet for bodybuilders...

First off, it's not meant to bulk up. How can you bulk wihtout any insulin?

Second, anytime you cut on any diet, you're losing muscle.

CKD was designed specifically for the bodybuilder to preserve as much muscle as possible while cutting.

 

[Nathan101085]

right

right when on low carb your turning your protein into glucose using cortisol and then burning it that takes extra calories which means a bigger caloric deficet is easier to obtain but a caloric defeciet does the same thing as long as you have it, carbs or no carbs and thats just chemistry.