1-AD and 4-Derm stacked…

[thx9000]

Okay, so I started 1-AD at 300mg/day along with 4-Derm (Avant labs) 6 squirts 2x a day. As of this Sunday I went to 600mg/day and 6 squirts a day…

In the beginning I was 188lbs and caliper measurements were about 23mm (side of chest, right of navel, mid thigh), not going to bother trying to translate that the bf %, it all seems like BS anyhow.

Here’s what I have noticed: no really strange sides like some people have mentioned. My kidneys don’t hurt, no burning piss, no burning shit, no insomnia, no weird pains, hair’s fine, I can still get it up. If anything, I am slightly more tired in the mornings (harder to get out of bed) like a very mild hangover and I might be slightly, slightly less interested in sex. If I weren’t paranoid about all the “sides” I’ve seen publicized, though, I probably wouldn’t have noticed these two items.

Here’s what has changed: in just three days I weighed 3lbs more, then in two more days two more pounds, now that it’s been a little over a week I am up 9lbs. I’m completely confident this is NOT muscle. I’m hoping its not fat, and just water. Water makes sense, right??? I did my caliper measurements again and I came in at about 24.5mm (the .5 is from averaging repeated measurements). Does this make sense? Does my water theory make sense? I sure don’t want this to be fat. I haven’t really changed the consistency of my diet (about 65 to 70% protein, ~20% carbs, and ~15% fat) but I have bumped up the total calories by about 10%, maybe a little less...

 

[Guinness]

I'd guess mostly fat and water...your caliper measurement went up 1.5 mm, so wouldn't that indicate some fat, or water retention? Could be some muscle too, but I have a hard time believing you've gained even a pound of muscle in just 3 days, but I suppose anything is possible.

Have your lifts gone up at all?

 

[thx9000]

I'm not sure if the caliper measurements are really significant. I mean, there's got to be some room for error each time and I don't know if I 1.5mm is simply within that margin of error. So, I don't know if I added .5, 1, or 1.5mm. I decided to average and round up rather than down....

I REALLY doubt I gained any muscle. Not yet at least. I know it's easy to store (and shed) water really, really fast so I was hoping other people noticed significant water gains. That would make me feel better.

I took note of all my "2 to 3 rep maxes" (just the way I do it) last week just for the record and will do some comparisons later. I work each body part 2x a week but I have this ridiculously complex "system" and it will be about another week from now before I test my maxes again. Anyhow, I have noticed some things being a little "easier" in that I have an easier time hitting my reps/set goals on ALL my sets for the day rather than just the first 1/2 of my workout as is usually the case.

 

[pa1ad]

I'm not sure if the caliper measurements are really significant. I mean, there's got to be some room for error each time and I don't know if I 1.5mm is simply within that margin of error. So, I don't know if I added .5, 1, or 1.5mm. I decided to average and round up rather than down....

I REALLY doubt I gained any muscle. Not yet at least. I know it's easy to store (and shed) water really, really fast so I was hoping other people noticed significant water gains. That would make me feel better.

I took note of all my "2 to 3 rep maxes" (just the way I do it) last week just for the record and will do some comparisons later. I work each body part 2x a week but I have this ridiculously complex "system" and it will be about another week from now before I test my maxes again. Anyhow, I have noticed some things being a little "easier" in that I have an easier time hitting my reps/set goals on ALL my sets for the day rather than just the first 1/2 of my workout as is usually the case.

the first effects of anabolic steroids are retention of sodium and potassium (sodium retention is more marked with aromatizing steroids). Then you start to see increased glycogen and creatine depostion. Water retention is secondary to all these phenomena.

Nitrogen retention comes on a little more slowly.

 

[thx9000]

Thanks, I think I actually understand that.

 

[thx9000]

Finished week 2....

I'm now at 199lbs, so that's an increase of 11lbs. My caliper measurements are back down to the 23mm that they were at before the cycle began. I'm now at 600mg/day of 1-AD and 12 squirts of the 4-Derm...

Sides: libido is going down a bit. Physically there's no problem, it's just that once in a while I find myself thinking, "can't we go to sleep instead...?" So far, I don't let that thought win, though. Little bit of gas once every few days. That's it. Well, there is the water gain...

Benefits: I don't think I put on 11lbs of muscle, so not that. Basically, at this point, every workout is fucking awesome. I don't have a bad day, or bad set, any more. Strength gains have all been nominal, though, nothing too exciting. Endurance and recovery between sets is great though.

 

[Par Deus]

Re: Finished week 2....

I'm now at 199lbs, so that's an increase of 11lbs. My caliper measurements are back down to the 23mm that they were at before the cycle began. I'm now at 600mg/day of 1-AD and 12 squirts of the 4-Derm...

What kind of results do you normally get in 2 weeks, with similar diet and training??

11 pounds on what is basically a low-carb diet is excellent, to say the least.

 

[thx9000]

Re: Re: Finished week 2....

What kind of results do you normally get in 2 weeks, with similar diet and training??

11 pounds on what is basically a low-carb diet is excellent, to say the least.

Um, it's got to be water....

I eating exactly the same ratios of protein, carbs, fat, but maybe slightly more calories/day. Normally? I will fluctuate +/- up to 4 lbs from one week to the next but always hovering around 187lbs. I usually wont see any net gains on a bi-weekly basis. I actually tracked this closely for a year, last year, and saw a growth rate of about 1.2lbs/month. Sounds kinda crappy to me, but that's what it was. It was really strange too, I gained like 5lbs in one 6 week period (bf even went down) then nothing for two months. Anyhow, I think this is water so far. I gained all the weight on three seperate days the scale just jumped 2 - 3lbs literally over night. I'm willing to bet that if I went on E/C/A I would drop back to 190 in about three days. I've seen my body do this before...

 

[thx9000]

hey, BTW: I think the penetration enhancers in the 4-Derm are making my hands peel. Not really big deal but the skins pretty much flaking/pealing off in sections. Kinda gives me something fun to do when sitting in meetings...

 

[Par Deus]

Certainly, a significant portion is water weight of various kinds -- and I have seen as much as 15lbs in two weeks when people do a typical mass phase diet, but it is surprising that it would be that much weight of any kind with carbs restricted.

ParDeus
www.avantlabs.com