Why Keto?

[MS]

Ummmm I don't get it KWKSLVR. Grizzly specifically asked about energy for his workouts with regards to carbs/keto diets. At elite fitness this usually means weights workouts. There are plenty of other threads on this board where you can appropriately gush the pleasures of Atkins, but by your own admission it is not ideal for bodybuilders.

Perhaps you could start a new thread to address the misconceptions of Atkin's diet. Your answers to "why Keto" are not relevant to this thread IMHO.

Crackerot is more on target with his CKD advice. This works well for bodybuilders, but is one of the worst diets you can undertake if you're already obese and insulin resistant. CKD is good if you're healthy and only have a little fat to lose, but it is just one of many diets that work well in this sitch.

 

[Debu]

MS, whatever you write always makes sense and I'm so glad that you are there to clear the air! Can you post a sample of your daily diet of the high carb/mod protein/low fat and also of your cutting phase with mod carb/high protein/low fat. And what is exactly "mod" and "high"? I know it will be differnet per individual but just a ball park figure so I can guesstimate for my size. And what about those pics!!! One of the reasons I eat so much protein is because of the lifting but if I can get away with less I would love to! Thanks.

 

[OMEGA]

since when did being an advocate of due process, procedural justice, become a negative thing.

The rule of law should be applicable to every instance in which a crime is committed. If you respect the law and hold it a fundamentally true, than you should take that premise to height of conceptualization.

Also i am happy that your health is improved.... when one of us advocates another form of nutritionla therapy, it is not done out of spite for your ideas, or for the masterbation of our own ego's.....the exchange of our ideas revolve around concern for the health of one another, and the hope that will all improve.....that's all.

ok

 

[Grizzly]

But like you were implying, most people don't work out and don't have the time to do so. I, for one, don't. I work out cardio a little bit, but i definately don't have the time to fit it in everyday.

BULLSHIT! Unless you are working double shifts, then everyone has time to workout. It only takes an hour or so a day, and with there being 24 hours in a day that leaves 23 for everything else. It's called priorities. Do you watch any television? If you do, then you have time to workout. End of story. "I don't have time" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard that usually comes from lazy fat asses.

 

[Grizzly]

Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things.

That's exactly why I asked the question in the first place. I was curious as to why all of these professed bodybuilders are espousing the virtue of a ketogenic diet. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that these boards were populated by bodybuilders.

 

[MS]

While I tend to agree with ya Grizzly I will defend a person's freedom to make their own dietary choices as long as they are based on knowledge rather than gossip and tradition. In an ideal world everyone would eat right and exercise regularly from the womb to the tomb. In the real world everyone has to battle temptations to eat crap and not workout enough (and make amazing excuses to justify their choices).

If you work with an alcoholic then all you can do is advise them to give up alcohol, but deal with the situation as it presents itself.

If you deal with a heavy smoker then all you can do is advise them to give up smoking and deal with the situation as it presents itself.

If you deal with a 'hard-gainer'......

If you deal with an anorexic.......

If you deal with an AIDS patient......

If you deal with an obese person.......

In all these cases the lifestyle habits and damage are already set. This calls for remedial measures. For people like KWKSLVR and Big Calvin (to name only two of many) an Atkin's style diet is an appropriate remedial course of action.

Many bodybuilders do successfully use a modified keto diet (CKD) but like any diet it is not right for every bodybuilder. That's for you to decide based on as much education and experience as you can muster. Please don't confuse an Atkin's (full time keto) diet with a cyclical keto diet (CKD).

Above all else we should be supportive and encouraged by KWKSLVR's progress since we all want to move forward in life. Even if you're not obese, losing fat is one of the hardest things we can do in this modern world full of readily available food and passive entertainment.

And this board is a diet discussion board. There are training boards and anabolic boards and supplement boards to answer peoples training questions. I feel uncomfortable discriminating against non-bodybuilders on this board because there are many people out there that need diet help of all sorts. I merely suggest that KWKSLVR starts a separate thread to address the virtues (and otherwise) of an Atkin's diet for NON-bodybuilders, and also to help dispell some of the incorrect notions that many people have about keto diets.

 

[MR. BMJ]

WOW...what an entertaining thread...LOL.

Well, I guess i'll add in some pocket change. I tend to agree with both sides here. For the most part, I would not suggest a keto type diet to an obese person. First I should mention that I only advocate a CKD keto type diet and not a straight keto diet. I think Atkin's is a quack, and that there are better versions of the keto diet (ala "Bodyopus" and "The Ketogenic Diet"). In essence, it all comes down to calories in vs. calories out. Even Lyle McDonald has stated this. There is no reason to go into extremes when one can accomplish things in a more easy route. Lets face it, if you can get to single digits without a keto diet, then there is no need for the keto diet. I feel that CKD's really excel when people get to low bodyfat levels and want to get "ultralean". It seems to be reallt effective at the last bit of stubborn bodyfat and water weight that is normally a pain in the ass to get rid of. Although there is NO real threat to most peoples health while following a "smart" CKD, I still have to believe that a diet which incorporates a more nutrient balanced intake would be a healthier way of eating for a normal lifestyle. I really don't see why there is such a big deal here between everyone, if something is working and it is not jeopardizing or hurting anyone's health, then who gives a flying fuck? There is NO ONE WAY!!! The are better ways at certain times, and at other times, there is other diets which will benefit a person in their goals. I really don't see the typical CKD as being unhealthy, but I would not really see why one would want to follow such a diet all the time. I feel that the reason why most Pro's don't use this diet (although there is still a lot who do), is that they are on soo much damn growth hormones, DNP, insulin, IGF-1, thermogenics, Thyroid hormone, etc, etc, etc....that they really do not need to go into extremes to reach their goals. One thing I really agree with MS on, and I know from experience, is that most Americans diets are shitty. There is no denying this, especially considering the fact that the average population is OVER 33% obese (actually it is higher now so I am being kind). BTW, I am an American so don't think I have some kind of country bias here. I also agree that if there was not such a high variety of shitty foods out there in the community, then there would be a naturally lower obese problem. Another thing I notice is that other countries are a lot more dependant in traveling on foot, and not by vehicular transportation. Look at a lot of European based countries (as well as others) and you will notice a dramatic decrease in the amount of obese people you encounter. I'm happy to be an American, but i'll be the first to admit that we are pretty lazy (not everyone of course). Awwww hell, I am pretty tired so I think i'll stop here. Have to wake up in the morning kind of early and drive a fucking hour and a half to school. I always enjoy a good debate, but I feel there is not no real answer to what contemplates the best diet. Well, 6:30 is coming pretty fast so i'll talk to everyone tomorrow (aargh 2 mid-terms...yuck!!!). LATER!

MR. BMJ

 

[woje3]

I agree with KWKSLVR.......More people will get fat from carbs than anything else in my opinion. Why do you think we have more LOW FAT snacks on the shelves of our grocery stores than over, but for some reason we as a country are fatter than ever????? Put 2 and 2 together.......Low carb diets will have you burning fat 24/7. whether your on the treadmill or in front of the TV. You can also put on muscle with these diets, the atkins diet or a keto (5 days 0 carbs, 2 day carb up). I have increased my lifts big time on the atkins diet over the long term....I can eat as much fat/protein as I want and keep my bodyfat low. When I've gone back to a normal diet in the past I quickly noticed bodyfat increasing and realized that I was carb resistant. Everyone is different. There is no correct diet for everyone, but for many people, a low carb diet will be very helpful. And I know everyone talks about the dangers of it, but fact is more people will die from being obese in the long run than from being on a low carb diet and LOOKING GOOD.

 

[KWKSLVR]

BULLSHIT! Unless you are working double shifts, then everyone has time to workout. It only takes an hour or so a day, and with there being 24 hours in a day that leaves 23 for everything else. It's called priorities. Do you watch any television? If you do, then you have time to workout. End of story. "I don't have time" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard that usually comes from lazy fat asses.

You've entertained me more than anyone else has in a long time.

1) Do you know how my day starts? My day starts at 5:30 every morning where i wake up and go for a jog. After that i walk back in the door, cook breakfast, eat, get ready, and make my 30 minute trek to class everyday.

I'm in class from 8:00a.m. to 8:00p.m. I come home, study/do whatever work i need to then cook dinner and watch the news. While i watch the news i do situps, pushups, and the like. After that i sleep, rinse, repeat, everyday.

2) Since we've established that strict keto diets do not contain the proper fuels for body building, then we've also established that IF i had the time mixed with a strong enough desire to be so huge that i can barely walk, i still wouldn't be able to aquire that goal with my current eating habits.

3)

Why does everyone like this ketogenic diet bullshit? Do you really think it's that effective? Sure, you lose a ton of weight, but so much of it is water loss.

Bullshit - bullshit
n : a ludicrously false statement [syn: bull, Irish bull, horseshit,
shit, crap, bunk, bunkum, buncombe, guff, rot,
hogwash, dogshit]
v : talk through one's hat [syn: waffle, bull, fake]

My responses - Have been why the above statements are false. Which is that, A) they are not effective, which is only half false depending on what your goal is. B) That the majority of people who lose on it are losing mostly water weight. Tell me that these people have only lost water weight, and i'll tell you your crazy .

I will defend a person's freedom to make their own dietary choices as long as they are based on knowledge rather than gossip and tradition.

I hope that i've shown that i've done at least a little research and know at least something about keto diets. If i don't then i've done well for myself running in blind .

Grizzly - I understand that you were posting in regards to body building. However, after my first couple of posts i think i unintentionally changed the focus of your thread, for that i appologize. I'm someone who usually does not leave things unsaid and in doing so i've ended up leaving half of us refering to weight loss, and the other half refering to body building.

 

[Grizzly]

I agree with KWKSLVR.......More people will get fat from carbs than anything else in my opinion. Why do you think we have more LOW FAT snacks on the shelves of our grocery stores than over, but for some reason we as a country are fatter than ever????? Put 2 and 2 together.......Low carb diets will have you burning fat 24/7. whether your on the treadmill or in front of the TV.

Well, that one is simple. Sugar. Let's look at some of the "low fat" snack choices. Licorice. Low-fat ice cream. Low fat cookies. Low fat peanut butter. What do all of these have in common? They are loaded with...you guessed it...SUGAR! The lean-seekers worst enemy. That's the trick, my brother. If there's anything that you shouldn't be eating when trying to be lean it's sugar and that's what's in all of those "healthy, non-fat foods."

Secondly, anytime your body is in a caloric deficit you will be burning bodyfat. Therefore, whether you shrink your carb intake or your fat intake your body will burn fat if it is in a caloric deficit. It's the law of thermogenesis.

Now, as for why the keto-type diets work. It's because there is a higher level of satiety with high fat/high protein foods. Therefore, you get full faster which keeps your calories to a minimum. I could eat a pound of oatmeal with raisins like it's nothing, but put a pound of chicken in front of me and it gets a little harder. The difference between the two is the overall calories. I'll hazard a guess and say that the oatmeal and raisins would have about 2500-3000 calories whereas the chicken would have about 800. That's the difference. So, the real trick with the Atkins diet is in fooling yourself into thinking that you're eating a ton, when really your caloric intake is really not that high. Of course, I can and have eaten 3 pounds of bacon so that might hurt the old diet.

As I tell everyone who asks me about how to gain or lose weight, it's all about calories.