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Why Keto?
- Thread starter Grizzly
- Start date
sixtythirtyten
New member
first off, you are saying that a diet high in sat. fat does not clog arteries and cause heart disease?
second thing, when I say carbs I do not mean candy, i mean rice and oats.
and the problem with people eating carbs as you have mentioned is that people either eat too much or not enough protein with it, that is the problem.
third thing, www.musclenow.com, this will explain what I am trying to say in a little more detail.( if you buy the book)- no I am not trying to promote this book or anything it's just that this is the only website I have found on bb who has got the bb diet right.
fourth thing, I knew I wasn't going to get support on this board. But it doesn't make a difference to me I am just tryin to help people get big and cut , and vascular. peace
second thing, when I say carbs I do not mean candy, i mean rice and oats.
and the problem with people eating carbs as you have mentioned is that people either eat too much or not enough protein with it, that is the problem.
third thing, www.musclenow.com, this will explain what I am trying to say in a little more detail.( if you buy the book)- no I am not trying to promote this book or anything it's just that this is the only website I have found on bb who has got the bb diet right.
fourth thing, I knew I wasn't going to get support on this board. But it doesn't make a difference to me I am just tryin to help people get big and cut , and vascular. peace
Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis).
Maybe there does need to be a return to highschool freshman biology...
Maybe there does need to be a return to highschool freshman biology...
It's not my style to flame anyone so I won't start now. But I have to say (coming from a similar background to KWKSLVR I think) that it is obvious to me that the majority of Americans have the shit-iest diet on earth and can't do WORSE than Atkins/ CKD diet. This does not mean that carbs from low GI/low insulogenic carbs diet are bad for ya. It only means that most of the overweight/obese people need to cut the processed crap out of their diet. This includes highly processed meat products as well as most bread/pasta etc......and processed (canned) fruits and veggies (and sweet tasting stuff such as Aspertame....). Obviously some folks do well on a keto diet. I will put forward a proposition that the people that do best on a keto diet are the ones that were most out-of-control/overweight on their previous diet(s). I know for a certainty that in the world of bodybuilding the MAJORITY of competitors do not use a keto diet to lose fat and maintain LBM (with or without AAS). I will put my moderate carb/low fat/ high protein diet photos up against anyone who has done low carb high fat to judge for themselves (NB My photos would be a high carb/modrat protein/low fat bulking diet and high protein/moderate carb/low fat cutting diet).
Ok, lets us a little common sense here. If one's body is effectively burning over 200 grams of fat a day, plus enough stored fat to shed off excess weight, then where is all of this newly stored fat thats being converted to Cholesterol? HOW are your arteries being clogged IF YOUR BODY ISN'T STORING FAT?
When i am talking about sugar, i too am talking about oats, grains, rice, etc. Its not like the people in this country were eating Grits every morning in the early 1900's. Newsflash, a carbohydrate gets broken into a sugar. Of course its not the same as eating a spoonful of sugar, but eating a potatoe can, and will cause a spike in blood sugar/insulin levels. Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control.
Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things.
If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored.
A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates. Think of it as a 2 triangles trying to make a square. If you have been eating 300 grams of carbs a day your whole life (along with other deficencies), then you have been eating a non-balanced diet, or, 1 triangle. The first few stages of Atkins are meant to be corrective, or the other triangle. Eating a so-called "balanced" diet may be healthy, but it is NOT CORRECTIVE. I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good.
On glucose. Your body uses 2 things as sources of energy. The primary source is glucose, your 100% correct N-10-CITY. Ketones are the second. As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before.
All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis. Ketosis is the SAME process that allows animals to hybernate and use their own stored fat for energy. It is natural, and your body is designed to use its own fat for energy if you will let it by cutting down carbs thus enabling your fat mobilizers to do their jobs.
I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge.
When i am talking about sugar, i too am talking about oats, grains, rice, etc. Its not like the people in this country were eating Grits every morning in the early 1900's. Newsflash, a carbohydrate gets broken into a sugar. Of course its not the same as eating a spoonful of sugar, but eating a potatoe can, and will cause a spike in blood sugar/insulin levels. Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control.
Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things.
If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored.
A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates. Think of it as a 2 triangles trying to make a square. If you have been eating 300 grams of carbs a day your whole life (along with other deficencies), then you have been eating a non-balanced diet, or, 1 triangle. The first few stages of Atkins are meant to be corrective, or the other triangle. Eating a so-called "balanced" diet may be healthy, but it is NOT CORRECTIVE. I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good.
On glucose. Your body uses 2 things as sources of energy. The primary source is glucose, your 100% correct N-10-CITY. Ketones are the second. As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before.
All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis. Ketosis is the SAME process that allows animals to hybernate and use their own stored fat for energy. It is natural, and your body is designed to use its own fat for energy if you will let it by cutting down carbs thus enabling your fat mobilizers to do their jobs.
I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge.
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"Ok, lets us a little common sense here. If one's body is effectively burning over 200 grams of fat a day, plus enough stored fat to shed off excess weight, then where is all of this newly stored fat thats being converted to Cholesterol? HOW are your arteries being clogged IF YOUR BODY ISN'T STORING FAT?"
Correct on any type of diet. If you take in less calories than you burn and adequate protein then you will lose fat.
" Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control. "
Also correct. However the average American diet doesn't get the majority of it's carbs from unsalted, low fat whole grains and vegetables (boy is THAT a mild understatement!)
"Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things."
On this one we agree 100%. I am a bodybuilder
"If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored. "
Correcto mundo yet again. If you take in MORE CALORIES than you burn then you will gain mass of some sort.
"A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates."
Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process).
"I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good. "
Hmmmmmm so I stand by my original proposition that an Atkins type diet is probably better than NO diet for your average American. This does not make it OPTIMAL for muscle gain or fat loss if you have some self control over your carb intake.
" As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before. "
Yes your brain can use ketones to a certain extent, but it also has an absolute requirement for glucose to function properly. It is well documented (mainly from epileptic children who's brains are not 'normal' to begin with) that a well designed ketogenic diet will usually provide enough glucose via gluconeogenesis of proteins and glycerol. If your brain function has improved on a keto diet then you may have been borderline or undiagnosed insulin insensitive. Even taking into account genetic predispositions this indicates a previously shitty diet (my original proposition).
"All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis."
This is true all the time. Ketosis is not required. I will say that again in simple terms: Lipolysis AND lipogenesis occurs all the time (even on a keto diet). It's the overall balance of lipolysis to lipogenesis that determines whether or not you lose fat. This comes down mostly to calories in must be less than calories out.
"I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge."
You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Which is what bodybuilders have been doing successfully for decades. This is not saying that a keto diet (in the form of CKD) will not be successful for some bodybuilders, and it's certainly not saying that an Atkin's type diet isn't successful as a last resort for morbidly obese people who are more than likely insulin resistant anyway (due to that shitty diet/genetic thing). I have thrived for 42 years on a high carbs/moderate protein/low fat diet. My BP/HDL/LDL/glucose tolerance etc.... are perfect. So maybe I've got good genetics but if you've met my family.........Father died of heart failure (age 52 and was morbidly obese all of his life). My grandfather died of complications from type 2 diabetes. My mother is also now type 2 diabetic. Everyone (and I really mean everyone) in my family is overweight or obese. The only difference between me and the rest of my family is
1) I exercise regularly (including weight training, hiking, biking, rock climbing); and
2) I eat a basically vegan diet which is high in unprocessed carbohydrates, moderate in protein and low in fat.
And surprise surprise the American Heart Foundation recommends a similar diet based on lots of demographic data. The only problem with the American diet is that no one actually follows those guidelines! They think that carbs are interchangeable (a carb is a carb and a fat is a fat and a protein is a protein mentality)
I will recap some advice (based on demographis so you gotta take it with a grain of salt) from a very good conference I recently attended:
Eat 6+ servings of whole unprocessed grains/nuts and legumes each day
Eat 10 servings of fruits and vegetables each day
Make sure those fruits and veggies are FRESH, LOCALLY GROWN and IN SEASON where you live.
Keep sodium intake balanced with other minerals.
After you've eaten all of the above then eat anything else your little heart desires.
Pretty simple recipe to raise your children on don't ya think?
Correct on any type of diet. If you take in less calories than you burn and adequate protein then you will lose fat.
" Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control. "
Also correct. However the average American diet doesn't get the majority of it's carbs from unsalted, low fat whole grains and vegetables (boy is THAT a mild understatement!)
"Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things."
On this one we agree 100%. I am a bodybuilder
"If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored. "
Correcto mundo yet again. If you take in MORE CALORIES than you burn then you will gain mass of some sort.
"A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates."
Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process).
"I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good. "
Hmmmmmm so I stand by my original proposition that an Atkins type diet is probably better than NO diet for your average American. This does not make it OPTIMAL for muscle gain or fat loss if you have some self control over your carb intake.
" As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before. "
Yes your brain can use ketones to a certain extent, but it also has an absolute requirement for glucose to function properly. It is well documented (mainly from epileptic children who's brains are not 'normal' to begin with) that a well designed ketogenic diet will usually provide enough glucose via gluconeogenesis of proteins and glycerol. If your brain function has improved on a keto diet then you may have been borderline or undiagnosed insulin insensitive. Even taking into account genetic predispositions this indicates a previously shitty diet (my original proposition).
"All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis."
This is true all the time. Ketosis is not required. I will say that again in simple terms: Lipolysis AND lipogenesis occurs all the time (even on a keto diet). It's the overall balance of lipolysis to lipogenesis that determines whether or not you lose fat. This comes down mostly to calories in must be less than calories out.
"I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge."
You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Which is what bodybuilders have been doing successfully for decades. This is not saying that a keto diet (in the form of CKD) will not be successful for some bodybuilders, and it's certainly not saying that an Atkin's type diet isn't successful as a last resort for morbidly obese people who are more than likely insulin resistant anyway (due to that shitty diet/genetic thing). I have thrived for 42 years on a high carbs/moderate protein/low fat diet. My BP/HDL/LDL/glucose tolerance etc.... are perfect. So maybe I've got good genetics but if you've met my family.........Father died of heart failure (age 52 and was morbidly obese all of his life). My grandfather died of complications from type 2 diabetes. My mother is also now type 2 diabetic. Everyone (and I really mean everyone) in my family is overweight or obese. The only difference between me and the rest of my family is
1) I exercise regularly (including weight training, hiking, biking, rock climbing); and
2) I eat a basically vegan diet which is high in unprocessed carbohydrates, moderate in protein and low in fat.
And surprise surprise the American Heart Foundation recommends a similar diet based on lots of demographic data. The only problem with the American diet is that no one actually follows those guidelines! They think that carbs are interchangeable (a carb is a carb and a fat is a fat and a protein is a protein mentality)
I will recap some advice (based on demographis so you gotta take it with a grain of salt) from a very good conference I recently attended:
Eat 6+ servings of whole unprocessed grains/nuts and legumes each day
Eat 10 servings of fruits and vegetables each day
Make sure those fruits and veggies are FRESH, LOCALLY GROWN and IN SEASON where you live.
Keep sodium intake balanced with other minerals.
After you've eaten all of the above then eat anything else your little heart desires.
Pretty simple recipe to raise your children on don't ya think?
Cackerot69
New member
"keto diet is a horrible diet. I have been saying this from the first day I heard about it. You will lose muscle unless you use some type of test."
Have you used the diet? This statement is completely retarded.
"Think about it, is a diet that tells you to eat bacon, butter and any other type of bad fat really good for you"
Not really. For short periods of time, it won't hurt. I wouldn't tell anyone to use a ketogenic diet exclusively, but for losing fat it can't be beat IMO. BTW, do you know what hormone causes tryglyceride synthesis the most? Insulin. You know what is responsible for burning fat rather than storing it? Glucagon. Insulin is released from carbs, glucagon is released from the absence of carbs.
"Sure, I'm sure that you are thinking well what if I just ate healthy fats like flax or something."
No I'm not.
"The problem is that you are eventually going to have to go back to a normal diet, once you do this your body will be so used to using fat for fuel that it will start storing carbs very easily as fat. That is why the 60% carbs, 30% protein 10% fat diet is the best. You are telling your body to use carbs for fuel, use protein to build muscle, and the fat will be used to provide building blocks for other substances and pad vital organ organ structures(and whatever else fat does)."
Your body can get energy from a ton of places. If you provide it with fat, it will use fat. If you provide it with carbs, it will use them. The body has a certain capacity for storing glucose in the form of glycogen, surpass this capacity and you gain fat. Don't and you don't. With glucose depletion (in the form of keto, in this instance) you can greatly *increase* glycogen storage capacity. So, no your body won't just store them as fat. It will store them as glycogen. Which is a good thing. 60% carbs is sure to keep insulin high all day thus blunting fat burning and kicking fat storing into high gear. 30% protein is about fine. 10% fat is barely if even enough for all of the functions fat has in the body unless your calorie level is abnormally high.
"Fat does not break down as easily as carbs and also have over twice the calories, so our body does not need a lot of fat. Also, it is impossible to build muscle naturally if there is no insulin present, so you cannot gain muscle while on keto."
Our body doesn't need a lot of carbs either. In fact, our body doesn't need carbs at all, it does need fat though. I don't think anyone recommends a zero-carb diet for weight trainers. Either a cyclical or targeted approach in recommended, so the absence of insulin is incorrect. It is possible to build muscle with a CKD.
"And last thing is that what is the point of putting on muscle and then watching it shrink away because of glycogen and potassium depletion."
The point is that this doesn't happen. Again, have you used the diet?
"Remember there is good water and there is bad water, good water is inside muscles, bad water is underneith skin from too much salt."
Yeah, and?
*****
"That's what I'm saying, my brother! How can you workout when you're carbs are so damn non-existent? And, interestingly enough, the brain does not function properly on less then about 60 grams of carbs per day."
You schedule training around carb loads, that's how. For example, a typical CKD looks like so:
Monday - Friday - 75% fat, 25% protein
Saturday n Sunday - Tons of carbs, 1g protein/pound, little fat.
Monday and/or Tuesday are your training days. You still have glucose in your muscles to train with. You also do a submaximal workout on Friday to fully deplete glycogen and take advantage of exercise induced insulin sensitivity in trained muscles.
*****
"Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis)."
Your brain doesn't need glucose. When glucose isn;'t available ketones are produced for the brain to use as energy. Also, due to the almost unlimited amount of energy (despite below maintenance cals) on a ketogenic diet gluconeogenesis doesn't happen to any significant degree, because it just isn;t needed.
Werd.
Have you used the diet? This statement is completely retarded.
"Think about it, is a diet that tells you to eat bacon, butter and any other type of bad fat really good for you"
Not really. For short periods of time, it won't hurt. I wouldn't tell anyone to use a ketogenic diet exclusively, but for losing fat it can't be beat IMO. BTW, do you know what hormone causes tryglyceride synthesis the most? Insulin. You know what is responsible for burning fat rather than storing it? Glucagon. Insulin is released from carbs, glucagon is released from the absence of carbs.
"Sure, I'm sure that you are thinking well what if I just ate healthy fats like flax or something."
No I'm not.
"The problem is that you are eventually going to have to go back to a normal diet, once you do this your body will be so used to using fat for fuel that it will start storing carbs very easily as fat. That is why the 60% carbs, 30% protein 10% fat diet is the best. You are telling your body to use carbs for fuel, use protein to build muscle, and the fat will be used to provide building blocks for other substances and pad vital organ organ structures(and whatever else fat does)."
Your body can get energy from a ton of places. If you provide it with fat, it will use fat. If you provide it with carbs, it will use them. The body has a certain capacity for storing glucose in the form of glycogen, surpass this capacity and you gain fat. Don't and you don't. With glucose depletion (in the form of keto, in this instance) you can greatly *increase* glycogen storage capacity. So, no your body won't just store them as fat. It will store them as glycogen. Which is a good thing. 60% carbs is sure to keep insulin high all day thus blunting fat burning and kicking fat storing into high gear. 30% protein is about fine. 10% fat is barely if even enough for all of the functions fat has in the body unless your calorie level is abnormally high.
"Fat does not break down as easily as carbs and also have over twice the calories, so our body does not need a lot of fat. Also, it is impossible to build muscle naturally if there is no insulin present, so you cannot gain muscle while on keto."
Our body doesn't need a lot of carbs either. In fact, our body doesn't need carbs at all, it does need fat though. I don't think anyone recommends a zero-carb diet for weight trainers. Either a cyclical or targeted approach in recommended, so the absence of insulin is incorrect. It is possible to build muscle with a CKD.
"And last thing is that what is the point of putting on muscle and then watching it shrink away because of glycogen and potassium depletion."
The point is that this doesn't happen. Again, have you used the diet?
"Remember there is good water and there is bad water, good water is inside muscles, bad water is underneith skin from too much salt."
Yeah, and?
*****
"That's what I'm saying, my brother! How can you workout when you're carbs are so damn non-existent? And, interestingly enough, the brain does not function properly on less then about 60 grams of carbs per day."
You schedule training around carb loads, that's how. For example, a typical CKD looks like so:
Monday - Friday - 75% fat, 25% protein
Saturday n Sunday - Tons of carbs, 1g protein/pound, little fat.
Monday and/or Tuesday are your training days. You still have glucose in your muscles to train with. You also do a submaximal workout on Friday to fully deplete glycogen and take advantage of exercise induced insulin sensitivity in trained muscles.
*****
"Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis)."
Your brain doesn't need glucose. When glucose isn;'t available ketones are produced for the brain to use as energy. Also, due to the almost unlimited amount of energy (despite below maintenance cals) on a ketogenic diet gluconeogenesis doesn't happen to any significant degree, because it just isn;t needed.
Werd.
No, i don't think its a simple recipe to raise my kids on 
. Let me put it this way, i didn't hit college and go from 250 to 283 until i started eating a lot of cereal and fruits because they were "healthy". But like you were implying, most people don't work out and don't have the time to do so. I, for one, don't. I work out cardio a little bit, but i definately don't have the time to fit it in everyday.
"Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process)."
Your body NOT using a carb for energy is what allows it to be converted and stored. If your body looks to a carb for energy first, and cannot use the available supply, then its going to store it for "later use". Hell, i have 20 years and 60lbs of "stored energy" that my body has used up in the past 3 months.
"You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Don't forget that people deep into Atkins (20-40 grams a day) have weight loss as their primary goal, not building muscle. As they go on to the last 2 stages, and get up around 50-100 grams or so, they are still able to loose weight, just not as quickly, and build muscle.
I think we are both talking about what to do with 2 entirely seperate goals. I don't think anyone should be in ketosis if they want to body build. However, i can't deny the fact that there have been over 40,000 people in this country who have been on keto diets, lost massive amounts of weight, kept it off, and increased their overall health as well.
Everyone i know that i know that has been on a keto diet has seen an increase in their energy level. Since i started college 3 years ago i've gotten around 5 hours of sleep a night. It used to not be enough, now it is. I don't feel tired in the mid-day, or any other time. I have a consistant level of energy all day long, eating 3 meals a day. I wish i could do 6 small meals, but my schedule doesn't allow it.
On calories, i'll take an example from one of my books to best explain my view on calories, and if you'll read parts of the book i recommended above, you can find this on page 75.
"It works like this. To lose a pound a week one has to be eating 500 fewer calories a day than one burns up in energy. To gain a pound a week, one eats 500 calories a day more. Harry had been gaining half a pound a week for the past 35 months, which means he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. He was eating 3 full meals with chicken and fish for dinner and he was taking in 2129 calories a day.
Now, on the Atkins diet, Harry was losing 3.9 pounds a week, which means that according to conventional calorie theory, he would have to be taking in 1950 fewer calories a day than he burned in energy. We already know that at 2129 calories a day, he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. Thus Harry's break-even point is 1879 calories a day. To lose 3.9 pound a week, he should be taking in 1879 calories minus 1950 calories, or -71 calories a day -- Clearly an impossibility since you can't eat less than nothing.
You've seen Harry's menu (it's on page 76 of the book). In fact, that menu calculates out to 1928 calories a day. Harry is eating 49 calories a day over break-even point and therefore, according to calorie theory, he should be gaining 0.1 pound a week, and after 13 weeks on the Atkins diet he should have gained 1.3 pounds, not lost 50."
The chapter goes on to discuss the metabolic advantage, and FMS. Basically, what i'm getting at, is that study's have found that calories are irrelevent on low carb diets. Now i'm sure that in the case of your diet, this fact is much different. However, don't forget that i'm talking about an Atkins-style diet only.
Also, on me being insulin insensitive. Let me answer it this way. 1/2 the people on my dad's side of the family are diabetic, a few on my mothers side are as well (most type 2). Other than needing to lose weight, the main reason i even attempted this diet (my first one ever) was because i refuse to live my life sticking myself with a needle, dependent on some drug, for the rest of my life.
My uncle is no longer insulin dependent after losing 140lbs on Atkins. Diabetics probably benefit more from Atkins (with STRICKT help from a doctor) than any other body type.
. Let me put it this way, i didn't hit college and go from 250 to 283 until i started eating a lot of cereal and fruits because they were "healthy". But like you were implying, most people don't work out and don't have the time to do so. I, for one, don't. I work out cardio a little bit, but i definately don't have the time to fit it in everyday. "Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process)."
Your body NOT using a carb for energy is what allows it to be converted and stored. If your body looks to a carb for energy first, and cannot use the available supply, then its going to store it for "later use". Hell, i have 20 years and 60lbs of "stored energy" that my body has used up in the past 3 months.
"You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Don't forget that people deep into Atkins (20-40 grams a day) have weight loss as their primary goal, not building muscle. As they go on to the last 2 stages, and get up around 50-100 grams or so, they are still able to loose weight, just not as quickly, and build muscle.
I think we are both talking about what to do with 2 entirely seperate goals. I don't think anyone should be in ketosis if they want to body build. However, i can't deny the fact that there have been over 40,000 people in this country who have been on keto diets, lost massive amounts of weight, kept it off, and increased their overall health as well.
Everyone i know that i know that has been on a keto diet has seen an increase in their energy level. Since i started college 3 years ago i've gotten around 5 hours of sleep a night. It used to not be enough, now it is. I don't feel tired in the mid-day, or any other time. I have a consistant level of energy all day long, eating 3 meals a day. I wish i could do 6 small meals, but my schedule doesn't allow it.
On calories, i'll take an example from one of my books to best explain my view on calories, and if you'll read parts of the book i recommended above, you can find this on page 75.
"It works like this. To lose a pound a week one has to be eating 500 fewer calories a day than one burns up in energy. To gain a pound a week, one eats 500 calories a day more. Harry had been gaining half a pound a week for the past 35 months, which means he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. He was eating 3 full meals with chicken and fish for dinner and he was taking in 2129 calories a day.
Now, on the Atkins diet, Harry was losing 3.9 pounds a week, which means that according to conventional calorie theory, he would have to be taking in 1950 fewer calories a day than he burned in energy. We already know that at 2129 calories a day, he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. Thus Harry's break-even point is 1879 calories a day. To lose 3.9 pound a week, he should be taking in 1879 calories minus 1950 calories, or -71 calories a day -- Clearly an impossibility since you can't eat less than nothing.
You've seen Harry's menu (it's on page 76 of the book). In fact, that menu calculates out to 1928 calories a day. Harry is eating 49 calories a day over break-even point and therefore, according to calorie theory, he should be gaining 0.1 pound a week, and after 13 weeks on the Atkins diet he should have gained 1.3 pounds, not lost 50."
The chapter goes on to discuss the metabolic advantage, and FMS. Basically, what i'm getting at, is that study's have found that calories are irrelevent on low carb diets. Now i'm sure that in the case of your diet, this fact is much different. However, don't forget that i'm talking about an Atkins-style diet only.
Also, on me being insulin insensitive. Let me answer it this way. 1/2 the people on my dad's side of the family are diabetic, a few on my mothers side are as well (most type 2). Other than needing to lose weight, the main reason i even attempted this diet (my first one ever) was because i refuse to live my life sticking myself with a needle, dependent on some drug, for the rest of my life.
My uncle is no longer insulin dependent after losing 140lbs on Atkins. Diabetics probably benefit more from Atkins (with STRICKT help from a doctor) than any other body type.
Well put Cackerot69.
Also, don't forget that that the Atkins diet is NOT the initial stages. The diet itself is more like 15% carbs, 35% protein, 50% fat. Somewhere around there. Basically its a point where your taking in as few as 25 or 30 grams/carbs or as many as 100/120. Of course, the more carbs you take in, the leaner the meat you eat needs to be.
Also, don't forget that that the Atkins diet is NOT the initial stages. The diet itself is more like 15% carbs, 35% protein, 50% fat. Somewhere around there. Basically its a point where your taking in as few as 25 or 30 grams/carbs or as many as 100/120. Of course, the more carbs you take in, the leaner the meat you eat needs to be.
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