Why Keto?

[KWKSLVR]

What about out of the ordinary stress on any muscles and healing time over injury's? I've done 0 research on weight lifting with my carbs so low, and 3/4 of what i've read here has told me that i wouldn't gain any muscle anyway due to so little glycogen being present in my muscles.

Basically, my reasoning has been that without the proper fuel, all i'd accomplish my lifting would be injuring myself. But like i said, i haven't done any research on the matter.

 

[chaste]

guys, I dont know. Again i can say Im not into the whole Keto thing.

I have read Atkins' book and I tried his stuff awhile back. Honestly, from my heart I dont like his methodology nor the keto methodology in general, despite its success here and there. The diet is Not an overall nutritional diet and doesnt seem to be a "LifeStyle" diet. That's why I agree with grizzly about it being a somewhat a fad diet.

After getting into serious weight training, efficient aerobics and clean frequent eating, I dont see anything better than this. High Protein, moderate carbs and low fat with strength training and aerobics is the way to go.

I only can speak from personal experience and I haven't never felt as good and as healthy as I do with this methodology.

chaste

 

[MS]

Please KWKSLVR, I know you are all fired up because for the first time in your life you feel you have control over you weight. Bravo for you. But please also realize that you are coming across like a religious evangelist on this Atkins thing. This does not advance your 'cause' any more than someone blowing up a New York tower or two. I have read Atkin's original diet revolution cover-to-cover, and more than that I have looked at many of the references he cites (and followed up on more recent research). He is a man who has made a LOT of money off of his 'revolutionary' diet plan, yet still hasn't managed to fund any peer reviewed, cross-over studies that would really help him an aweful lot. When pressed for hard-core research he inevitably comes up with afadavits by the thousands and tangential studies that he inteprets to support his diet. Where I come from we call this kind of behaviour 'political' or 'lobbiest'. That is why I call him a quack. None of this means his diet is 'no good' (just like not all politicians are bad) as you are well aware. It just means 'caveat emptor'.

Just a blast from the past so you will realize that I am NOT anti-keto, here's a link and a quote from big calvin back in late July

MS (that's me) said "Have you had a full check-up for heart, liver, kidney disease for a start? If you have any probs there then you really need to do a keto under medical/dietetic supervision. But I really think that you need to knock off eating carbs at least until your insulin sensitivity returns to more normal levels. Please don't put this off any longer. You've been waffling around on this diet issue for too long and if you keep it up your pancreas may just pack it in all together and then you WILL be insulin dependant for life. That's if your heart doesn't give up first. I'm not scare mongering, just very concerned that you're stalling (in denial as you said) and that this could have serious repercussions. And steroids at this stage will most likely worsen your insulin resistance and possibly raise you blood pressure (not to mention the orals will tax your liver even more than it already is). Don't even think about it right now."

http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=37618&highlight=MS+big+calvin

 

[MS]

For Grizzly

A thread that is going at the same time on 'keto for obesity' regarding a keto diet......

"You know i fear the summer...
no baggy clothes to hide in
hot girls in bikini's walking by laughing
fear of socalising
fear of being seen
fear of being judged
hatred of yourself
no self confidence
no self esteem
depression
=/
fuck it, take 10 years off my life and ill still want to do this so bad.
but time heals bad thoughts, and memories."

Just thought it was a nice window into another dimension that even I suffer from sometimes because people see and remember me when I'm "show ready" but in reality I am ashamed to show my off-season body in public.


"Compassion is the only true gift bestowed upon us by the gods"

 

[Grizzly]

MS- I already understand that "window." I was fat until I was 19 years old. Like I said before, I was 330lbs as a junior in high school. Hell, I entered high school at 285. How's that for understanding the mindset of a fat person? Shit, even now I'm still worried about looking fat. I'm not a fan of off-season conditioning either. I'm not even a fan of my contest conditioning since in 2 contests I've never been able to get where I want to be. But, I keep trying and I don't do any fad diets either. I just think that the quick fix attitude is bad. Why don't these people try some exercise(read: consistent and intense exercise) and a proper diet and they'll get where they need to be? I mean, really, bodybuilders have proven consistently over the last 50 or so years that they know how to get into the best shape of any humans alive and very few, if any, follow a keto type diet. Ok, so maybe for a week or two pre-contest the carbs might be nil, but that's it. Never for months and months on end.

 

[Grizzly]

How is a diet that is 30 years old and places emphasis on exercise a "Fad Diet". It goes back to my theory that most people have done ZERO research on their own on Atkins, and obviously are so thick-headed that they don't WANT to read the 20 links of scientific and other information on Atkins that i have provided in this thread and in others.

Ok, I'll admit it. I've never read the book, nor am I ever going to. So, perhaps the true atkins diet is different, but I'm refering mainly to the way people have taken up this zero carb diet thing. In the majority of the cases the people have just heard about how it works and have never read the book and never will and just go about blindly. Therefore, it's a fad diet. More importantly, it is. Slim-fast has been around for 20 years and it's STILL a fad diet. I'm also not saying that it's not effective, but, fuck, bulimia and anorexia will lose weight for you too. Bro, the literature is wrong. It's just plain un-fucking-healthy. Atleast for extended periods of time, such as years. There's a reason that carbs exist and that's because our bodies need them. Yes, that's right. Our bodies NEED, I repeat, NEED them. End of story.

 

[KWKSLVR]

Well, of course they do. I don't think i've ever said that carbs are the devil. But, like i've said before, the first few stages of Atkins are corrective, not balanced. Hell, most Americans don't eat a balanced diet. I wouldn't want to be on Atkins for years. However, i'm never going to return to a style of eating where i consume 400 grams of carbs. I've never been a big junk food eater. Junk food never made me fat, fat never made me fat, and i don't intend to return to what gave me problems to begin with.

This time next year i'll probably be eating around 60-100 grams of carbs a day. I've come to the conclusion that 400 grams of carbs a day, plus the saturated fats that most people eat just can't be healthy. Hell, i don't like the idea of eating 400 grams of carbs a day of ANYTHING.

What i do know is that keto has kept me from turning into a diabetic, and it saved my uncle from a heart attack. What do know from what i've seen in many other people, is that they all benefited in a positive manor and NONE of them have had any negative results. It brought an old friend (died in a car wreck) from about 270 to 175. He lowered his Triglyciridies and raised his good cholesterol levels.

These people are the reasons i tried Atkins in the first place. I had never tried dieting before because i saw EVERYONE that i new that lost weight on a low fat diet, battle with hunger and fautigue only to gain it all back. I'm a winner, not a loser. When i set out to accomplish a goal, i reach it, and i NEVER look back. Thats the way that i am, and Atkins provided the logical solution for ME.

Bro, the literature is wrong.

Dude, i don't know what you do for a living, but if going head to head with research and Doctors is what you like to do, then thats your business. I personally don't have the means to disprove medically proved research just because ?"its wrong"?. Study's always debunk each other. What i know is that what i am doing is working, and i am improving my health. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT. At, and if, a time comes when that changes, then of course i'm going to change the way i eat.

 

[Grizzly]

Well, of course they do. I don't think i've ever said that carbs are the devil. But, like i've said before, the first few stages of Atkins are corrective, not balanced. Hell, most Americans don't eat a balanced diet. I wouldn't want to be on Atkins for years. However, i'm never going to return to a style of eating where i consume 400 grams of carbs. I've never been a big junk food eater. Junk food never made me fat, fat never made me fat, and i don't intend to return to what gave me problems to begin with.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Atleast you don't plan on doing it all of the time. So, you've got half of my arguement. Now, if you're going to revert back to "normal" eating, then why not just lower the carbs, lower the fat and lower the overall caloric intake while exercising? That's what I would call a good and sound "diet." And, really, there's nothing wrong with consuming 400 grams of carbs. I do it all of the time. Of course, I'm much larger than most folks, but there's nothing wrong with 200 or so. It's in the choice of carbs. Sugar=bad. Let me clarify that: Simple, white, refined sugar= bad. Oats, whole wheat bread, pasta, potatoes= good. Clean eating= lean body. Simple.

 

[MS]

"I've come to the conclusion that 400 grams of carbs a day, plus the saturated fats that most people eat just can't be healthy"

That my friends is all you ever need to know about healthy eating for life. Save your $7 on the book and follow that advice, preferably sticking to whole unprocessed carbs and you will be fine.

"I had never tried dieting before"

Wow that's fantastic. He tells us not to knock a diet until we've tried it, but for him..........

Hmmmmmm makes ya wonder. Yup, it musta been the carbs that did it.

"Dude, i don't know what you do for a living, but if going head to head with research and Doctors is what you like to do, then thats your business."
Precisely

"I personally don't have the means to disprove medically proved research"

precisely again, which is why so many consumers get duped by anything that "looks" scientific.

" What i know is that what i am doing is working, and i am improving my health. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT."

Nope, can't argue woth that. I've seen similar statements on grapefruit diets, fasting, laetril for cancer, cream to enlarge breasts blah blah blah.

My point about Atkin's which you fail to grasp because you don't 'have the means' is that he does not, even after 30 years of making money on this diet, perform any peer reviewed research. If you don't know what that means and why it's important then you are misled, NOT because the diet isn't working for you but because you are supporting and encouraging a 'quack'. This has a valid and established medical meaning.
At, and if, a time comes when that changes, then of course i'm going to change the way i eat."

 

[KWKSLVR]

Man, i can see oats and whole wheat oats, but pasta and potatoes? A Potatoe is pure sugar. You know the infamous "Freshman 15"? Mine was the freshman 30....all from pasta and potatoes lol. But of course, this was eat and no exercise :-D

Wow that's fantastic. He tells us not to knock a diet until we've tried it, but for him..........

Have i knocked anyone elses diet? If i have, i honestly didn't intend too. Like i said, i know relatively nothing about body building, the diets, etc, so i try to not tread on those subjects. What i do try to defend is the diet that is working for me and has improved my health.. Is that so wrong? I personally don't think so.

At any rate, obviously we all have different opinions and have different strategies. No 2 people are made a like. One thing that i think we all agree on is that any amount of processed foods and hydrogenated oils can be bad for you. I try to eat as fresh as i can. I think in the end, most people could benefit from less fast foods and snack foods if from nothing else.

In High School, when i wasn't even trying to lose weight, i managed to drop about 10lbs by just cutting out fast food.