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What A Waste
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
C
Citruscide
Guest
Bottom Line, I don't think mixing protein shakes with water is a waste. But you know what IS a waste? Saying one thing and then turning around and saying that isn't exactly what you ment... and then, not having anything to really back it up and finally, telling people they are morons or flamers for disagreeing.
Controversy DOES get people to think... but I think people would respect more if your point was proven better... rather than just thrown out as solid fact.
C-ditty
Controversy DOES get people to think... but I think people would respect more if your point was proven better... rather than just thrown out as solid fact.
C-ditty
drgoodbody
New member
yeah, what he said... "Prove it to me" LMAO ... whatever. Next.
DrG
DrG
K
kronk
Guest
Nelson Montana said:Okay, you got me. I just signed a major contract with the milk company and promised to get them more business by going on EF and telling people to drink milk. That'll do it.
I swear, some of the accusations are just moronic.
Then of course you have the flamers...um, I mean the mods who love to dismiss what I say while providing heaping mounds of evidence to the contrary. No, wait a minute. They provided no evidence, did they? They're mods. Just believe what they say.
And finally, lets not forget those that get really peeved at posts that get thousands of view and dozens of replies. All that interest is really a bother isn't it? Maybe he's right. From now on, lets stick to issues like which testosterone is best and if it's okay to drink winny.
Very, very sad.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good Info....
BigAndy, what were your prolactin levels? How do you know if you have sleep apnea? My prolactin is a little elevated (2 blood tests done 3 months apart said around 24-26). I know I have to remove my adenoids because it makes breathing harder, but probably has nothing to do with it.
BigAndy69 said:
Mine are puffy!I'm hoping it's fat deposits..Can you beleive I got gyno from increased prolactin levels from a lack of sleep (ie sleep apnea)? That's what my blood tests show. Unreal.
BigAndy, what were your prolactin levels? How do you know if you have sleep apnea? My prolactin is a little elevated (2 blood tests done 3 months apart said around 24-26). I know I have to remove my adenoids because it makes breathing harder, but probably has nothing to do with it.
kronk said:
Yes, your short sightedness is indeed sad.
What's interesting to me is that some mods can come on here, make a banket statement and the response is; "OH REALLY! TELL US MORE!"
Yet I get an endless litany of "prove it prove it, prove it."
I'll repeat what I've said many, many times before. For one thing, I can not cut and paste on this server, so I would have to write out every address of every site that concurred with my conclusions and I am not going to do that. If you have a problem with that, sorry. Secondly, much of my information doesn't come from the internet -- yes, as hard to believe as that may be, there's something called books and journals and I'm not going to present a reference list of them. If you choose to ignore my statements because of that, you have every right to do so.
drgoodbody
New member
BTW Nelson, it was this thread that put it over the top for me with regard to the flaming and "Prove it to me" mentality of this board.
DrG
PS: I don't always agree with Nelson's comments, but the attacks on this thread and the "prove it to me" crap just litter's any good ideas in here, like shit on whipped on cream.
DrG
PS: I don't always agree with Nelson's comments, but the attacks on this thread and the "prove it to me" crap just litter's any good ideas in here, like shit on whipped on cream.
C
Citruscide
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
Water is ABSOLUTELY necessiary for regular bodily function.
I know when I don't drink water for a day, I feel really run down and tired. I'm assuming that is the same for others as well. Many Americans are chronically dehydrated, which means they aren't operating at their top capacity. For many studies that support this and more, do a search on Google.
This only goes to show that the new Hydroxycut Oxide is the supplement for you!
C-ditty
Boulder257
New member
Citruscide said:
WOW!!! Really?? Tell me more!!!
K
kronk
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
Nelson,
I never asked you when I first posted on this thread to prove anything. I made a clear statement about what you said. You then came back a few pages late and recanted your statement. Proof means nothing to me at all, because every bit of proof is biased in one way or another. For every study that comes out that says one thing or another, you can always find another that says the opposite.
My issue is that you make statements that are completely false as you did on this post, then you come back trying to recant with insults and such. That is not only not professional, but is totally a slap in the face to the members, mods and all staff of this or any board.
When I said it was sad, this is what I was referencing. The unprofessional manner in which you respond to members and staff is also extremely sad indeed as is you promotion of products not sold on this site. I am all up to a healthy professional debate, however that is not the way you speak to people.
kronk said:
Quite frankly, you're full of shit.
You were one of the first to come on with an insult. Go back and check. Obviously you have a short memory. And don't try to patronize the members of the board. I provided information. You provided dissention. Funny how that can be turned around into me slapping the members in the face. Talk about unprofessional.
fogg88
New member
I guess no one's ever going to provide any evidence for this alleged large scale protein-to-glucose conversion in a non-fasted state.
I've seen a lot of digression to GI transit time, insulin spikes, and the fact that a caloric surplus is necessary to gain mass, but still nothing at all addressing the fallacy that started this whole thread.
Oh well.
I've seen a lot of digression to GI transit time, insulin spikes, and the fact that a caloric surplus is necessary to gain mass, but still nothing at all addressing the fallacy that started this whole thread.
Oh well.
C
Citruscide
Guest
sk* said:
This sums it up. Karma to you.
C-ditty
Nelson <thinking>: Hmm, what can I come up with today?
Nelson <thinking>: Let's see, one time I heard that eating a cat will give you better protein than eating a cow.
Nelson <posting on elite>: I can't believe this shit, you fools eat cow when you can actually be eating a cat. (Goes on for ten minutes how everyone is stupid and can't believe how foolish they are for eating cow meat)
Nelson <continues yelling on elite>: Cow meat does nothing for you fools, you are all stupid.
Mods and most members: What the hell are you talking about? We all grew eating cow.
Some kid from unestablished country with 2posts: In my country we eat cat, and I grow big.
Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: You people are stupid, you eat something and you don't know why it is working.
Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: Continues to compliment the foreign kid for eating cat, and then goes on to say that he didn't mean cow meat does NOTHING only that it isn't as good as cat.
<Mods and members get angry>
Nelson: I have 1000s of published articles and I have worked with athletes and fat housewives with kids.
Nelson: (somehow manages to insult the people that disagreed with him)
Members: (insult back)
Foreign kid: I love Nelson.
Nelson to foreign kid: I love you too.
<Thread Locked!>
----
-sk
Nelson <thinking>: Let's see, one time I heard that eating a cat will give you better protein than eating a cow.
Nelson <posting on elite>: I can't believe this shit, you fools eat cow when you can actually be eating a cat. (Goes on for ten minutes how everyone is stupid and can't believe how foolish they are for eating cow meat)
Nelson <continues yelling on elite>: Cow meat does nothing for you fools, you are all stupid.
Mods and most members: What the hell are you talking about? We all grew eating cow.
Some kid from unestablished country with 2posts: In my country we eat cat, and I grow big.
Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: You people are stupid, you eat something and you don't know why it is working.
Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: Continues to compliment the foreign kid for eating cat, and then goes on to say that he didn't mean cow meat does NOTHING only that it isn't as good as cat.
<Mods and members get angry>
Nelson: I have 1000s of published articles and I have worked with athletes and fat housewives with kids.
Nelson: (somehow manages to insult the people that disagreed with him)
Members: (insult back)
Foreign kid: I love Nelson.
Nelson to foreign kid: I love you too.
<Thread Locked!>
----
-sk
K
kronk
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
Ok, lets look at every post. This was my first post and was exactly what I said it was above "I never asked you when I first posted on this thread to prove anything. I made a clear statement about what you said.":
kronk said:
This was my second in which I laughed at a joke someone said:
kronk said:
ROFL!!!!!
Here was my last one in response to you:
kronk said:
So please tell me how I am full of shit. You say that I was the first to insult you, I didn't insult you I made a clear concise comment about your statement. You also say that you provided information, yes you did, FALSE information. Again Nelson, I would love to have this debate with you, but you seem incapable of having a professional factual debate.
Paulo
New member
Citruscide said:
Do you take Paypal???
Will my 11 year old brother look like you in 3 months if I get it for him??? That would be cool.
Can I get an EliteFitness discount?
And finally, How did I manage to live without this stuff for so long?? You are a true blessing to the supplement community.
Paulo
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good Info....
My doctor is the chief of medicine at the hospital, he didn't show me the exact level but he said it was way out of whack. He knows his stuff. I hadn't been on gear for a while. Also my sex drive was NON existant. No libido nothing, limp dick like deca dick all the time.
My sleep apnea got worse and worse. What you do is get a sleep study and they tell you if you have it. Mine was so bad they are using it as a special case study at the University. I'm suppose to be dead (If it wasn't for my strong heart from all those years of training)
Anakin said:
My doctor is the chief of medicine at the hospital, he didn't show me the exact level but he said it was way out of whack. He knows his stuff. I hadn't been on gear for a while. Also my sex drive was NON existant. No libido nothing, limp dick like deca dick all the time.
My sleep apnea got worse and worse. What you do is get a sleep study and they tell you if you have it. Mine was so bad they are using it as a special case study at the University. I'm suppose to be dead (If it wasn't for my strong heart from all those years of training)
Silent Method
New member
What you have stated in this post goes against what has been established and written in a myriad of textbooks and journals.Nelson Montana said:
You CANNOT present an idea contrary to well established science and expect us to gobble it up WITHOUT some reference that supports your statement. (Well, you CAN expect some of us to.)
You do not have to list every source that agrees with you - that's silly. HOWEVER, why will you not list a few? Give us two reputable internet sites, two books, and two journals that support your statements.
lordValmont
New member
All I can say after reading thru this thread...
Hey nice avatar Paula-got milk?
Hey nice avatar Paula-got milk?
This really wouldn't be that hard to prove or disprove if someone had a glucose meter. Just establish a baseline glucose level, take protein shake with water. Measture glucose levels. Repeat next day with milk in the shake.
i would also like to add that up is really down....there's too much proof for me to post here so just believe me.
i would also like to add that up is really down....there's too much proof for me to post here so just believe me.
sk* said:
That's funny! Now allow me to give my version.
Nelson: Don't do aerobics.
EF member: What do you mean? That goes against everything I heard. You're a moron.
Two months later.
EF member. Hey, you know...since I stopped doing aerobics my muscle are fuller, my strength is up and I haven't put on any fat.
Nelson: When you eat has almost no bearing on how you look.
EF member. Everybody knows that nutrient timing is the most important aspect of bodybuilding. You're just being controversial.
Two months later.
EF member I went on vaction and couldn't follow my nutrient timing at all. It made no difference. I say to everyone that timing isn't that important.
Other EF members. You may be right. Karma to you.
Nelson: Short cycles are the way to go because they're less suppressive and you can not hold on to massive gains anyway.
EF member: You're an idiot. I gained 180 pounds on my first cycle and kept it.
Two months later.
EF member. I'm 25 aand my T level is 62. How do I go about getting HRT?
Nelson: Clomid blows.
EF member: Every study in the world disagrees with you.
Two months later.
EF member: I've been on 100 mgs of Clomid for a month, I still have no dick, and I want my mommy!
Nelson: Do my calve routine and you'll only need to train calves 4 minuts a week.
EF member: LOL! Yeah, I can imagine Ron Coleman training calves only 4 minutes a week. What a tool!
Two months later.
EF member. I did this calve routine I saw posted on another message board and I can hardly walk. Kudos to the guy who cut and pasted it.
Nelson: Using avena sativa will raise free testosterone.
EF member. Sure, supps suck. You said it yourself, now you're changing your mind.
Two months later.
Hey, I tried avena sativa and I have wicked morning wood for the first time in years. Has anyone else heard of this?!
Nelson: You can get it at PF.com
EF member. Spammer!!!
Nelson: If you use DNP you're a fool.
EF Mod. You haven't the slightest bit of knowledge about chemstry. You're a joke. Go home.
Two months later.
EF: I'd like to send out special condolances to a fallen bro. ******, a Mod here at Elite Fitness has died of a sudden heart attack. It was not related to drugs though.
And so it goes.
DJ_UFO
Banned
I'd like to know where are the studies that proves the first post of this thread. If exists any study, is important to write it down at the end of the post. If no studies exists at all that prove this theory, well, it is just an opinion and not a fact. And that means that I have the right to say that the theory is wrong. And I don't have any backup study to prove that is wrong.
Now we can experiment based on the ADVICE of Mr. Montana by adding fat to the protein shakes. We MAY have better results.
my 0.02
Now we can experiment based on the ADVICE of Mr. Montana by adding fat to the protein shakes. We MAY have better results.
my 0.02
Nelson Montana said:
How well do you expect your ideas to be accepted when they start with:
Nelson Montana said:
And then the argument changes from:
Nelson Montana said:
To:
Nelson Montana said:
You set yourself up as an authority and not too many people like to accept an argument based on authority especially when it begins with an insult....but, hey it sure get's them to read your posts...
S
satchboogie
Guest
Nelson Montana said:Okay, you got me. I just signed a major contract with the milk company and promised to get them more business by going on EF and telling people to drink milk. That'll do it.
I swear, some of the accusations are just moronic.
Then of course you have the flamers...um, I mean the mods who love to dismiss what I say while providing heaping mounds of evidence to the contrary. No, wait a minute. They provided no evidence, did they? They're mods. Just believe what they say.
And finally, lets not forget those that get really peeved at posts that get thousands of view and dozens of replies. All that interest is really a bother isn't it? Maybe he's right. From now on, lets stick to issues like which testosterone is best and if it's okay to drink winny.
good points nelson..
but what do you have to say to mavy's post?
page 4.
onerepmaximum
New member
Mr Montana,
I see it like this, you must earn respect, you can't demand it. When you try to demand it, you lose it. I know that I come to these boards to learn. I suspect a lot of us here do. It's not like we are predisposed to doubt every idea that someone presents. As you can see, I haven't been a member of the boards for very long. I started posting just about the time that it came to light that you created an alias on a discussion board to sing your praises because no one else was giving you the respect that you demanded. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, you told everyone why you did it and what not. If they bought it fine, if not, that's fine too. But maybe you can see why everyone doesn't form a school circle around you every time you clear your throat. Why not at least try to support your opinions instead of just saying, "Because I said so!" Personally, I have a pretty open mind about trying things out. It is unfortunate that you took such exception to requests for you to support your views. This thread would probably be 2 pages long if you had. Perhaps you think you are above scrutiny.
I see it like this, you must earn respect, you can't demand it. When you try to demand it, you lose it. I know that I come to these boards to learn. I suspect a lot of us here do. It's not like we are predisposed to doubt every idea that someone presents. As you can see, I haven't been a member of the boards for very long. I started posting just about the time that it came to light that you created an alias on a discussion board to sing your praises because no one else was giving you the respect that you demanded. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, you told everyone why you did it and what not. If they bought it fine, if not, that's fine too. But maybe you can see why everyone doesn't form a school circle around you every time you clear your throat. Why not at least try to support your opinions instead of just saying, "Because I said so!" Personally, I have a pretty open mind about trying things out. It is unfortunate that you took such exception to requests for you to support your views. This thread would probably be 2 pages long if you had. Perhaps you think you are above scrutiny.
crazy as post just spend 20 minutes reading every page....Sk funny shit..nelly nice reply...and let the debate rage....i have alwyas taken my pro with water....and have seen gains....i cant do milk and dont wanna ...im thinkin of takin my omega threes iwth protein but they're only 10 cals of fat a serving...
dubtz.
dubtz.
Fukkenshredded
New member
I think the confusion comes from the fact that a statement about protein utilization cannot be made without first commenting on the metabolic state of the body.
In general, the metabolic state does not depend primarily on the actual meal being eaten at any specific instant, and so in light of that fact we can see that the simultanaety of macronutrient consumption is not the predominant factor determining the use of those macronutrients.
After all, the body only performs either glycolosis ir gluconeogenesis--not both at the same time.
Glycolysis & Gluconeogenesis pathways are both spontaneous. If both pathways were simultaneously active within a cell it would constitute a "futile cycle" that would waste energy.
Overall, each pathway may be summarized as follows (ignoring water & protons):
Glycolysis:
glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi à 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP
Gluconeogenesis:
2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP à glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi
Glycolysis yields 2 ~P bonds of ATP.
Gluconeogenesis expends 6 ~P bonds of ATP and GTP.
A futile cycle consisting of both pathways would waste 4 ~P bonds per cycle.
To prevent this waste, Glycolysis and Gluconeogenesis pathways are reciprocally regulated.
Local Control includes reciprocal allosteric regulation by adenine nucleotides. This insures that when cellular ATP is high (AMP would then be low), glucose is not degraded to make ATP. It is more useful to the cell under such conditions to store glucose as glycogen.
Phosphofructokinase (Glycolysis) is inhibited by ATP and stimulated by AMP.
Fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase (Gluconeogenesis) is inhibited by AMP.
Global Control in liver cells includes reciprocal effects of a cyclic AMP cascade, triggered by the hormone glucagon when blood glucose is low. Phosphorylation of enzymes in liver by cAMP-Dependent Protein Kinase results in inhibition of glycolysis and stimulation of gluconeogenesis, making glucose available for release to the blood.
We can therefore deduce that a state of starvation is more likely to induce gluconeogenesis.
It is not simply a matter of limited carbs, as the presence of ATP is a primary factor as well.
Thoughts, Nelson?
In general, the metabolic state does not depend primarily on the actual meal being eaten at any specific instant, and so in light of that fact we can see that the simultanaety of macronutrient consumption is not the predominant factor determining the use of those macronutrients.
After all, the body only performs either glycolosis ir gluconeogenesis--not both at the same time.
Glycolysis & Gluconeogenesis pathways are both spontaneous. If both pathways were simultaneously active within a cell it would constitute a "futile cycle" that would waste energy.
Overall, each pathway may be summarized as follows (ignoring water & protons):
Glycolysis:
glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi à 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP
Gluconeogenesis:
2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP à glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi
Glycolysis yields 2 ~P bonds of ATP.
Gluconeogenesis expends 6 ~P bonds of ATP and GTP.
A futile cycle consisting of both pathways would waste 4 ~P bonds per cycle.
To prevent this waste, Glycolysis and Gluconeogenesis pathways are reciprocally regulated.
Local Control includes reciprocal allosteric regulation by adenine nucleotides. This insures that when cellular ATP is high (AMP would then be low), glucose is not degraded to make ATP. It is more useful to the cell under such conditions to store glucose as glycogen.
Phosphofructokinase (Glycolysis) is inhibited by ATP and stimulated by AMP.
Fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase (Gluconeogenesis) is inhibited by AMP.
Global Control in liver cells includes reciprocal effects of a cyclic AMP cascade, triggered by the hormone glucagon when blood glucose is low. Phosphorylation of enzymes in liver by cAMP-Dependent Protein Kinase results in inhibition of glycolysis and stimulation of gluconeogenesis, making glucose available for release to the blood.
We can therefore deduce that a state of starvation is more likely to induce gluconeogenesis.
It is not simply a matter of limited carbs, as the presence of ATP is a primary factor as well.
Thoughts, Nelson?
good point THX9000
Good point THX9000....are you a Communications professor? arguing from authority is a bad way to go about things....I think I remember learning about that in a communications class. Nelson's point would be more effective if he would start off less aggressively, perhaps asking a question and then stating his point...
Good point THX9000....are you a Communications professor? arguing from authority is a bad way to go about things....I think I remember learning about that in a communications class. Nelson's point would be more effective if he would start off less aggressively, perhaps asking a question and then stating his point...
Re: Re: Good Info....
so does that raise the GI by about 40 pts?
Dr. M said:
so does that raise the GI by about 40 pts?
Silent Method
New member
I can tell you right now - consuming a raw protein WILL raise humoral glucose levels as well as induce an insulin responce. This has NOTHING to do with protein being metabolized into carbohydrate.kingsbury said:
Look up glucagon, what it does, and it's response to protein absorbtion in the gut.
Spidey said:
What happened? It wasn't me.
This isn't the first time my posts have been tampered with. Whatever.I'm not going to go though the whole thing again.
Burning_Inside
Elite Mentor
ok dammit, this is getting annoying. ...
I don't know who to believe...here we have this post going against Nelson's (sounds believeable too)
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2945494#post2945494
The we have this one going with Nelson's
(also seems credible)
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2945699#post2945699
I don't know who to believe...here we have this post going against Nelson's (sounds believeable too)
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2945494#post2945494
The we have this one going with Nelson's
(also seems credible)
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2945699#post2945699
c3bodybuilding
New member
LMAO! I nearly pissed my pants and fell off the chair when I read that. Especially the 'fallen bro' part LMAO.
<<<<<<<<<<That's funny! Now allow me to give my version.
Nelson: Don't do aerobics.
EF member: What do you mean? That goes against everything I heard. You're a moron.
Two months later.
EF member. Hey, you know...since I stopped doing aerobics my muscle are fuller, my strength is up and I haven't put on any fat.
Nelson: When you eat has almost no bearing on how you look.
EF member. Everybody knows that nutrient timing is the most important aspect of bodybuilding. You're just being controversial.
Two months later.
EF member I went on vaction and couldn't follow my nutrient timing at all. It made no difference. I say to everyone that timing isn't that important.
Other EF members. You may be right. Karma to you.
Nelson: Short cycles are the way to go because they're less suppressive and you can not hold on to massive gains anyway.
EF member: You're an idiot. I gained 180 pounds on my first cycle and kept it.
Two months later.
EF member. I'm 25 aand my T level is 62. How do I go about getting HRT?
Nelson: Clomid blows.
EF member: Every study in the world disagrees with you.
Two months later.
EF member: I've been on 100 mgs of Clomid for a month, I still have no dick, and I want my mommy!
Nelson: Do my calve routine and you'll only need to train calves 4 minuts a week.
EF member: LOL! Yeah, I can imagine Ron Coleman training calves only 4 minutes a week. What a tool!
Two months later.
EF member. I did this calve routine I saw posted on another message board and I can hardly walk. Kudos to the guy who cut and pasted it.
Nelson: Using avena sativa will raise free testosterone.
EF member. Sure, supps suck. You said it yourself, now you're changing your mind.
Two months later.
Hey, I tried avena sativa and I have wicked morning wood for the first time in years. Has anyone else heard of this?!
Nelson: You can get it at PF.com
EF member. Spammer!!!
Nelson: If you use DNP you're a fool.
EF Mod. You haven't the slightest bit of knowledge about chemstry. You're a joke. Go home.
Two months later.
EF: I'd like to send out special condolances to a fallen bro. ******, a Mod here at Elite Fitness has died of a sudden heart attack. It was not related to drugs though.
And so it goes.>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<That's funny! Now allow me to give my version.
Nelson: Don't do aerobics.
EF member: What do you mean? That goes against everything I heard. You're a moron.
Two months later.
EF member. Hey, you know...since I stopped doing aerobics my muscle are fuller, my strength is up and I haven't put on any fat.
Nelson: When you eat has almost no bearing on how you look.
EF member. Everybody knows that nutrient timing is the most important aspect of bodybuilding. You're just being controversial.
Two months later.
EF member I went on vaction and couldn't follow my nutrient timing at all. It made no difference. I say to everyone that timing isn't that important.
Other EF members. You may be right. Karma to you.
Nelson: Short cycles are the way to go because they're less suppressive and you can not hold on to massive gains anyway.
EF member: You're an idiot. I gained 180 pounds on my first cycle and kept it.
Two months later.
EF member. I'm 25 aand my T level is 62. How do I go about getting HRT?
Nelson: Clomid blows.
EF member: Every study in the world disagrees with you.
Two months later.
EF member: I've been on 100 mgs of Clomid for a month, I still have no dick, and I want my mommy!
Nelson: Do my calve routine and you'll only need to train calves 4 minuts a week.
EF member: LOL! Yeah, I can imagine Ron Coleman training calves only 4 minutes a week. What a tool!
Two months later.
EF member. I did this calve routine I saw posted on another message board and I can hardly walk. Kudos to the guy who cut and pasted it.
Nelson: Using avena sativa will raise free testosterone.
EF member. Sure, supps suck. You said it yourself, now you're changing your mind.
Two months later.
Hey, I tried avena sativa and I have wicked morning wood for the first time in years. Has anyone else heard of this?!
Nelson: You can get it at PF.com
EF member. Spammer!!!
Nelson: If you use DNP you're a fool.
EF Mod. You haven't the slightest bit of knowledge about chemstry. You're a joke. Go home.
Two months later.
EF: I'd like to send out special condolances to a fallen bro. ******, a Mod here at Elite Fitness has died of a sudden heart attack. It was not related to drugs though.
And so it goes.>>>>>>>>>
bicepts101
New member
Silent Method said:
this is a great point
he acts like he needs to dish out every source known to man
just show us two, obviously you have to many to count
this shit is getting old, im sick of it
Generic MALE
New member
If I am not mistaken, and I may be as I am relying on memory, only SOME amino acids are gluconeogenic, some are lipogenic. Only some can convert to glucose. I can look it up if needed.
If I am not mistaken, and I may be as I am relying on memory, only SOME amino acids are gluconeogenic,
This is true, I'm pretty sure alanine is converted to glucose, and then only the AA's that can be converted to alanine are gluconeogenic. Which is part of the reason why I don't like very low-carb diets, but thats another story........
This is true, I'm pretty sure alanine is converted to glucose, and then only the AA's that can be converted to alanine are gluconeogenic. Which is part of the reason why I don't like very low-carb diets, but thats another story........
ok, i'm not going to profess that i know anything about this subject, but i do have a question. if the absence of fat negates the use of protein, how is it that pro bodybuilders retain so much muscle (and please don't just say drugs) when they're cutting. from what i've learned (correct me if i'm wrong), they eat very little fat in their 8-12 week pre-contest preparation (although i did see ronnie in his video eating fries) and tons of protein. wouldn't all this protein be converted to sugar?
nikolai_bolkov
New member
Kinda funny...
There is so much crap posted on this board without ANY backup that people EAT up...
but as soon as Nelson posts something he's required to include a full schedule of sources and citations
I like the idea, I'll drink milk with my protein and see what happens.
What would you rather have:
1. Nelson posting thought-provoking ideas or statements that could possibly help some people, albeit without backup, or
2. Nelson doesn't post anything
I prefer option 1.
There is so much crap posted on this board without ANY backup that people EAT up...
but as soon as Nelson posts something he's required to include a full schedule of sources and citations
I like the idea, I'll drink milk with my protein and see what happens.
What would you rather have:
1. Nelson posting thought-provoking ideas or statements that could possibly help some people, albeit without backup, or
2. Nelson doesn't post anything
I prefer option 1.
Silent Method
New member
Sad but true...nikolai_bolkov said:
Considering your first statement as well as the fact that what Nelson has posted in this thread is contrary to current scientific theory, why would you have us "EAT" it up without some supporting argument?nikolai_bolkov said:
(Don't get out of line with your "he's required to include a full schedule of sources and citations" nonsense. He has give NO argument whatsoever.)
I agree 100% on option 1 over option 2. However, you neglected option 3. - Nelson posting falshoods presented as truth hurting/holding back some people, or option 4. Nelson lying to stir the shit and drum up attention.nikolai_bolkov said:
I'm not saying that I think he did lie, but it's hard to believe someone who spends so much time researching these subjects posts such a blatant misleading post.
bicepts101
New member
Re: Re: What A Waste
LOL
velvett said:
This same line of reasoning goes for hot coccoa.
You have not lived until you have had coccoa and milk.
LOL
Aw geez! I don't log on for a while and Nelson goes and posts this nonsense and you guys get to have all the fun! 
Don't for a minute think that Nelson does not know what happens when he posts this stuff and i have to admit that Nelson brings a certain panache to the site.
I do find it a little disappointing that so many members are willing to believe whatever Nelson says without a shred of proof, i guess that goes to the lack of critical thinking being taught or demonstrated in our education system.
jb
Don't for a minute think that Nelson does not know what happens when he posts this stuff and i have to admit that Nelson brings a certain panache to the site.
I do find it a little disappointing that so many members are willing to believe whatever Nelson says without a shred of proof, i guess that goes to the lack of critical thinking being taught or demonstrated in our education system.
jb
Silent Method
New member
Poor jbold!
ok - here is a newbie 2 cents - Who knows what actually happens inside our bodies?? I do not care if you have taken 100 medical and chemystry classes - I doubt anyone knows 100%. So the only way to see if this works - is to try!!!! Keep in mind - what works for you - might not work me. Try drinking a glass of milk with every protein shake for 8 weeks during your bulk cylce and see if you can gain extra LBs that you did not before. Try drinking a glass of milk with every protein shake for 8 weeks during your lean cycle and see if you can gain loose some LBs -- there is a study outthere that correlates extra calcium with fatl-loss. Just my 2cc's -
Silent Method
New member
I think you have started with a valid line of reasoning here.smb_69 said:ok - here is a newbie 2 cents - Who knows what actually happens inside our bodies?? I do not care if you have taken 100 medical and chemystry classes - I doubt anyone knows 100%. So the only way to see if this works - is to try!!!! Keep in mind - what works for you - might not work me. Try drinking a glass of milk with every protein shake for 8 weeks during your bulk cylce and see if you can gain extra LBs that you did not before. Try drinking a glass of milk with every protein shake for 8 weeks during your lean cycle and see if you can gain loose some LBs -- there is a study outthere that correlates extra calcium with fatl-loss. Just my 2cc's -
However, your "real world experiment" lacks bearing on the actual claims made. It would simply be a test of the effect of consuming the extra milk - not the effect of the milk (or the fat therein) on protein absorption.
hey Nelson or others
Would whey protien + 1 tblsp flax oil + water work just fine if I can't drink milk.
... and what do you recommend for a post workout shake, because I have heard not to have flax in the post workout shake so I usually just do whey + 1 scoop of cell tech creatine, which is 150 cal of simple carbs and apprx 60 g of whey.
J
Would whey protien + 1 tblsp flax oil + water work just fine if I can't drink milk.
... and what do you recommend for a post workout shake, because I have heard not to have flax in the post workout shake so I usually just do whey + 1 scoop of cell tech creatine, which is 150 cal of simple carbs and apprx 60 g of whey.
J
c3bodybuilding
New member
Vince Gironda preached this way back in the day, and he made more people into champions than anyone else, and got stars into shape quickly. Vince was way ahead of his time. Some of you may want to say Nelson is bsing on this one, but are you guys going to say that the Iron Guru (Vince) was wrong?
11/2in22g5ccfilled
New member
yo montana does it have to be milk fat or just some efa's, or what about muscle milk is that o.k.?
Silent Method
New member
Just what did the 'ol "Iron Guru" say? Did he perpetrate the same lie as Nelson, that "protein can not be absorbed without the presence of fat" and egg or whey supplement ingested without fat cannot be absorbed? If so, then yes, Vince was wrong. So is that what Vince said, or did he simply say that milk and/or fat with protein is a desirable nutritious practice?C3bodybuilding said:
“Protein can not be absorbed without the presence of fat” is a lie designed to slap you in the face and make you say “da, I’m stooped and bedder pay attention to Nelson so I can get my musles big.” Can you argue that fat can aid the absorption of protein supplements? Sure, in many cases it does just that. Can a fat and protein mixture be used as a viable post-exercise meal? Of course.
However, #1, protein can certainly can be absorbed without the presence of fat, and #2, in many cases, such as post-exercise anabolic recovery, significant fat with protein can inhibit a more advantageous protein uptake.
Silent Method said:
Aah Silient. Here I was thinking everyone was getting along and you go and act like a dick. Nobody's lying here.
PEOPLE MUST STOP ACCUSING OTHERS OF LYING SIMPY BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH THEM. It's very inpolite. I call someone a liar when they lie. When they say something to destroy someones character or obtain what is not rightfully theirs or to subvert the truth. What the fuck am I gaining by placing a post that suggests taking in fat with protein. Chill the fuck out!
You're drugging up an old argument that was so blown out of proportion it was ridiculous. If I say I overstated that ALL protein will not be absorbed will that satisfy you, or will you use it as another attack tactic? You even admit that protein is not absorbed as well without the presense of fact yet you insist on making a federal case out of this. Lighten up dude. Get laid or something.
Silent Method
New member
OK, I'll back off a bit. With your first post here, technically you were not lying, you just didn't know what you were saying was untrue. You heard/read something you liked and ran with it. It just hapened to be false.Nelson Montana said:
Silent Method said:
Fair enough, on the frst part. Regarding the second part, I'll meet you half way. I must protest the "false" statement but I'll admit, my statements were perhaps too adament and unyielding. The truth is, not ALL aminos will not be digested, but much --many of them will be coverted to glucose. So to say 100% would not be accurate, I'll give you that. Maybe 85% is more accurate. But the point remains the same, as does the point about adding fat when bulking. It just wasn't quite as all inclusive as I made it out to be. Okay? It just took over 5000 views to come to a conclusion. But hey, that's about 4500 more than any post on the anabolic board lately.
BTW: For more on this topic, read some of the excerpts from my interview with Don Howorth on this board. The thread is "You're Not Going To Like This."
Silent Method
New member
Still disagree, but this is as far as we are going to get.
germandude
New member
Problem is I read almost every NM post and at the beginning i liked the flaming, because on the boards that i used to be on most people would just leave false statements in the open and that kinda sucked. But for no I've had enough. Let the guy talk, at least he's got something to say. I like the gurus, the mods and NM. I am the typical newbie from way the f... out of there one of you guys described. I am critical of NM and the mods. I am not going to lick anybodies balls so you can stop it already. All you acting like kids, enough is enough. The thing is everbody accuses everybody else of having done what they did, too. Not all of you are Nelson Montana even though you might have close to or even as much or even more knowledgethan him. Look everybody that's intelligent enough to find this side should understand what Nelson is doing. Is it stupid? I don't know it gets my attention. I like reading his stuff. I think alot of Mods on here have written excellent stuff too.
Back to the problem. You guys could be the BIG BANG if you thre aside all the personal stuff and act like pros. Stop the accusations and I'll stick with this board and tell everybody I know about it (soon we'll take over you know how Germs tend to do that?) or I could say I know a some good sites. For the EF forum: posts are too long because people always pie on each other and act retarded. Try out.... instead. Now that would really suck considering all the good info that can be pulled of this side.
NM is NM and no mod is going to change him. He sells stuff? So what? He wants people to buy it? So what, he made a person happy in this thread for that very reason. Enough business out there for all of you.
You can flame people when they really tell lies to sell product A but up until then stop annoying me.
Back to the problem. You guys could be the BIG BANG if you thre aside all the personal stuff and act like pros. Stop the accusations and I'll stick with this board and tell everybody I know about it (soon we'll take over you know how Germs tend to do that?) or I could say I know a some good sites. For the EF forum: posts are too long because people always pie on each other and act retarded. Try out.... instead. Now that would really suck considering all the good info that can be pulled of this side.
NM is NM and no mod is going to change him. He sells stuff? So what? He wants people to buy it? So what, he made a person happy in this thread for that very reason. Enough business out there for all of you.
You can flame people when they really tell lies to sell product A but up until then stop annoying me.
S
Spartacus
Guest
more like..if you add a teaspoon of wine to sewage you have sewage,if you add a teaspoon of sewage to wine you end up with sewage..I think NM trys to be a sort of mix of P.J. O'Rourke and Dan Duchaine with his comments,but he is only enjoying moderate success..I've been a customer of his in the past(frankly I felt I overpaid for his first book,which was about twice as expensive as the BB's Opus),and have purchased from PF recently..I'm reconsidering..and before he challenges me I'll have to say I looked as good if not better than him at 39-41ish,though I have to battle fat while he seems to have to struggle to add mass...and I looked a hellava lot better in the 20 years or since since I started training in spring '82..way before he got his "sh*t" together and way before I had access to the knowledge we have now...hell I don't think I drank my first protein drink until '98..in a sense though I'm sort of in agreement with him in that most of the basic principles have been around and we are just convoluting and overcomplicating this messdrgoodbody said:
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