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Vertical Leap training thread

quoting Jumanji from tmag forums - the same guy from the above posts - on how using Innosport concepts and principals can illustrate how one gets hops.
In this case for someone who isn't a genetic freak...
Either you have it naturally or you get it in the gym, strength is the backbone of all power

DUR = duration or strength work
PIm = up and down reps

I agree with evrrything you said here, but in this case, you do not understand all that DB is getting at with his theories, and you haven't had experience working an athlete through a progression of hypertrophy - strength - force absorption - force production - power absorption - power production, or you would know that it works amazingly well. You may be right on some level in saying that it is impossible to QUANTIFY a dropoff in elite athletes, as I have never coached an Olympic athlete. I have never extended past DI athletes, and their careers post collegiate. As an aide, I am actually more interested in coaching the athletes who are not genetic freaks, as they have been told by dumb asses their whole lives that speed in purely genetic. I can tell you that it isn't. Now, are the very most elite times? Yes, probably. I do not know how much ground DB's stuff can make up.

For example: over the past sixteen weeks I have been working with the son of a DII Basketball Coach. I also write the workout for his team. The son was a three year BFS devotee, never missing a workout....coach's son type. I had the coach run some diagnostics on the kid, and I felt that in order to springboard his performance, we actually needed to do more DUR work, but on muscle groups that we too weak to function correctly while he moved. He was typical, quad dominant, but little reactive ability. He was nailed to the floor at 6' with a running touch 6" below the rim. The month was a 4:1 Frequency - Fatigue cycle that immediately added 6 pounds of muscle (7 total), and his squat jumped 65 pounds. Three weeks. All he needed was some concentrated Iso work and some PIM 1 1/2 Bulgarian Squats to reteach those glutes / hips that they are the bad boys, not those dinky quads. We also did many rehabilitaive restorative drills to bring up his glute activation, and tons of pull-through, 45 Degree, Around the World type stuff to synch the rear chain. We then went to Force Absorption and Production for a phase, and I started him progrssing through very low level Altitude Work. I had primed his soft PF tissues during the DUR work, so we were ready to slowly enter into Plyos. Plus, he could now squat over 1.5X his BW, so following all of the cut-in-stone advice (which I always do with on-line clients to ensure liability is not an issue!!), he was ready for plyos.

Anyway, we went through 4 more 4:1 F-F cycles, and now he is down for the next week tapering for practice, which starts the day afeter Thanksgiving. He added 45 more pounds to his squat (now at 1.7X BW), even though we never did any Circa Max work, or Iso work. We have done Wave Loaded Reactives, after Force Drop Absorptions, and have worked through two waves of Altitude Drops / Depth Jumps using 3weeksAlt - 3weeksDepth-3WeeksOff-2WeeksAlt - 1Week Depth.

He can now run and hang from the rim off two feet and 1-foot. Oh, that was another issue, he was basically a total 2-foot jumper (I am sure engrained by so much squat work). We corrected that by doing many Split Squat type movements throughout the cycle. BTW, if I told you his speed improevements in the 30 and the Pro Agility, you'd probably call me a liar...as I am sure they ar enhanced by actually doing the tests and getting better at the specisfic test. I ask him every time we talk: you sure you didn't fall the first time? Nope, and they ran the tests 3X. So while we all talk numbers here, his on the court performance improved from the overall 15 pound weight gain and hike in performance that accompanied the retraining of his NeuroDynamic System.
 
one thing ive noticed about my vertical training....
as i have become stronger and increased the amount of weight i am able to do in the full squat, my vertical has increased with it. i think that as long as you are actively jumping along with your weight training, your vertical will continue to rise as long as you keep getting stronger. in my case, i have gained roughly 1 inch on my vert, for every 10 lbs i have increased in my squat.
as embarrassing as it is, when i started, i could only deep squat 135 for sets of 5. i am now squatting 245 for sets of 5. and my vert has gone up 11-12 inches from when i started. im sure if i was training with weights *only*, i would not have seen the results i have seen. but since i play vball 2-3 times per week which involves a lot of jumping, it helps my body apply the new found strength towards my jump.
 
Nice, I'm also a vball player. I've spent the winter hitting the weights hard. I think I started squats around 180 (my body weight), although on the last set of a 12-10-8-6 progressive increase and got up to 305 pretty easy on the same increase. I've been doing a modified 5x5 a friend in the know wrote up for me, geared towards VB. I really haven't played since all this training, but feel way stronger and like the results should be good. I've always been a natural jumper in the low to mid 30's, we'll see what we can do in the sand this summer. 2 more weeks and I finish up my 5x5, reload, then start plyo stuff.

This thread has been super awesome btw, thanks for all the postings, especially coolcolj!
 
Mookiebareknuckles said:
Nice, I'm also a vball player. I've spent the winter hitting the weights hard. I think I started squats around 180 (my body weight), although on the last set of a 12-10-8-6 progressive increase and got up to 305 pretty easy on the same increase. I've been doing a modified 5x5 a friend in the know wrote up for me, geared towards VB. I really haven't played since all this training, but feel way stronger and like the results should be good. I've always been a natural jumper in the low to mid 30's, we'll see what we can do in the sand this summer. 2 more weeks and I finish up my 5x5, reload, then start plyo stuff.

This thread has been super awesome btw, thanks for all the postings, especially coolcolj!
i played basketball and vball and always jumped around 32-34 without even training for it, it all just came naturally. well i had a bad car wreck, and didnt do anything from 2001 - 2005. when i started playing vball again, i was only jump low-mid 20's. that was when i started truly working on my vert, and in a matter of a few months i got up to 35-37 inches (about 27-30 in the sand)
 
Phaded said:
hmm so is there any one program everyone is doing to increase vert leap..

after reading through this thread it should be obvious to you. that there are no magic exercise or programs :)

read and be informed
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=228

Wannabebig: I think you’ve hammered home the emphasis on building a strong foundation. What sets your program apart from all the others? Why not just perform plyometrics, squat and practice jumping?

Kelly: What really sets my program apart from others is the individuality. No two athletes are exactly alike, and a cookie-cutter setup only works if you happen to get lucky, so I try to make everything customizable to the individual. Let me give you a few examples.

A. We might have an individual at 6'0" -130 lbs who has lightning-fast reflexes and quickness yet can only squat 115 lbs. This is the equivalent of a space shuttle trying to make it out of orbit with a 2 hp motor.

B. We might have an individual who's 5'6" - 180 lbs and is a state powerlifting champion. He's strong, lean, muscular, and looks impressive - yet he's only able to use his great force at slow speeds - In other words, he looks like a funny car but moves around like a tractor. He could pull you out of the ditch if you got stuck but in a race you'd blow him away.

C. We might have an individual who is 5'9" - 190 lbs. He has good speed and reflexes and strength, yet also has a 20-lb spare-tire hanging around his waist.

Each of those 3 people are going to need, and respond best to, a different type of training.
 
i'm 6'0 232-235 you can see pics in my log.. and i can dunk.. i'd like to dunk easily thats why i ask..

what do you think of my vert program for today..

squats
135 x 1 min x 2 did as many reps as i could do in 1 minute.

Lunges with 25lb dumbells.
8 reps x 2 sets.

Standing Calve Raises till fatigue x 2
Seated calve raises till fatigue x 2

Jumps.. jumped as high as i could 50 times in the gym trying to get up as high as i could on the backboard..
 
Phaded said:
i'm 6'0 232-235 you can see pics in my log.. and i can dunk.. i'd like to dunk easily thats why i ask..

what do you think of my vert program for today..

squats
135 x 1 min x 2 did as many reps as i could do in 1 minute.

Lunges with 25lb dumbells.
8 reps x 2 sets.

Standing Calve Raises till fatigue x 2
Seated calve raises till fatigue x 2

Jumps.. jumped as high as i could 50 times in the gym trying to get up as high as i could on the backboard..

good for bodybuilding not so good for jumping :)

when your training for power display, you never ever want to get near failure

I think you need to go Kelly Baggett's site and read everything there or just buy his Vertical Jump Bible - it will cover everything you ever needed to know about jump training. Not just programs but principals, which by the look of things you need to brush up on. Training for performance is a whole new ball game.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/
 
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