squatts down to the ground... lower back question.

[satchboogie]

when squatting all the way down to the ground, do you also feel your lower back muscles (erector spinae) burning like a motha?

i was wondering what the benefits of doing such squatts versus going half way down.

thanks in advance.

 

[Deepsquat]

I always have felt that you can go too low.. 99.99999% of all people that squat really low have a huge form break at the start of the rep ...they rise up with thier hips first and then with thier shoulders...this is why you back burns....also when going super low....that last 2 inches...does nothing to build muscle, just allows you to bounce, or strain your knees...if you want to go deep, try just 1-2 inches below parallel...that will mean you are squatting deeper themn 99% of the people in your gym!

 

[satchboogie]

and that burn at the beginning of the rep, is that 'bad' for your lower back?

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

I squat ass to the floor, and have since day 1 almost 10 years ago and have never had a lower back problem, the key is tightness, I never bounce on the bottom, that is incorrect form.....concentrate on not allowing the bar to come forward, and squat with your hamstrings as well, a good way to exlain this is just flex your hams throughout the rep......also, I don't know your entire routine, but your squat is only as good as your lower back and abs, you need to whack your low back and your abs with direct training.......The benefits of going down to the basement is that you develop the entire leg, keeping balanced dtrength between the quads and hams and this goes a long way in the prevention of a hamstring tear, which can set your training way back, and may cause nagging problems the rest of your training career.

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

I tend to go off on a tirade sometimes, I realized I ignored your question.....Yes, burning of the lower back during a squat is bad, and should not occur. Squats in an indirect way hit the low back and cause the erectors to be strengthened, but it is not a direct low back exercise and should not cause burning....I will go out and guess that at some, maybe you're even unaware of it, that the bar comes forward past your knees at some point, just double check this fine form point and if thats the problem, correct it and you should be squatting pain free......a lot of guys and gals do almost a hybrid goodmorning with max squat weight, or they pop up their hips too soon and lock their legs out and then straighten out their back, these are fine points, but it may be aggrivating your back, or it could be weak abs, and don't get all bent out of shape over this, you may have a visible 8 pack, and still have weak abs, a lot of people who do "crunches" look great in a speedo, but they have weak abs, try doing full range of motion sit-ups for the abs, also do your not so heavy sets with no weight belt if u don't already do this......I am trying to bring up some things u may be doing, so don't take the post the wrong way brother, it is just that full squats are the shit, and if I could get somebody who is having a problem with them to just re-evaluate their form and assistance work and see if the problem can be corrected in favor of scrapping squats for a sissy exercise or doing 1/8 of a rep on your squats, I think it is fucking great, so just look at all this stuff before you count out full squats, a lot of the things I mentioned I have seen a million times and I have seen problems corrected a million times.

 

[satchboogie]

BBD29....

i appreciate that bro, but not clear about one thing.

see... my erector spinae give up before my quads do. now correct me if i'm wrong but thats because of a weak lower back?

also, since my erector spinae are contracting to failure, are you saying that i'm doing damage to my lower back or that i'm just not utilizing the squat as its supposed to be performed.

thanks bro.

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

okay, bro...lets see if I can take a stab at this......If your erectors are giving out before your quads, it is most likely due to a weakness in the erectors or, believe it or not, the abs, because if your abs can't hang, then your low back picks up the slack, stressing it, this doesn't maen a bodypart is "weak", just proportionately weak compared to something else (quads, hams, whatever)......since you said your erectors give out, I imagine that it feels like they are worked, like when u do hypers, in that case it is a "good" sore, as opposed to a pain from an injury, so that could rule out a form issue......I would suggest doing abs in a full range of motion, slamming your lower back by direct work, heavy, heavy hamstring work, and you should be good to go.....you're only as strong as your worst weakness, so look into this shit.....it is like guys whose forearms give out on shrugs before their traps are fried, just address the weak points and it will improve your strengths.

 

[collegiateLifter]

sounds like the lower back could be rounding... not good

 

[spatts]

I'm with BBD. I squat ATF now and then, and when doing belt squats, oly squats, etc...

A strong tight core is essential for maintaining safety and form in ANY squat, ATF or not. The idea that this is "quads vs erectors" makes me think your form is off, and squatting with primarily the quads will cause that IRRESPECTIVE of depth. Using your hamstrings to squat actually protects your knees, and allows you to recruit stronger muscles for the job. One of the main reasons people use their erectors, round out, knee cave, etc...is because of a lack of hip flexibility and strength. The Project does this, and we only squat to parallel. His lower back is SO much stronger than his hips/glutes and hamstrings that he starts to GM the squat when he fatigues.

The proper form for a parallel squat is the proper form for an ATF squat. If you look at oly lifter's videos, their knees aren't way out front over their toes just because they're going ATF! The posterior chain should bare the brunt in any squat, because it can and it's safer.

Long story short...yes, your core is weak. Attack your weakness, and you will be able to squat to any depth safely. Your core (abs, obliques, intercostals, erectors, etc..) can NEVER be strong enough. They support everything you do.

 

[collegiateLifter]

The proper form for a parallel squat is the proper form for an ATF squat. If you look at oly lifter's videos, their knees aren't way out front over their toes just because they're going ATF! The posterior chain should bare the brunt in any squat, because it can and it's safer.

Long story short...yes, your core is weak. Attack your weakness, and you will be able to squat to any depth safely. Your core (abs, obliques, intercostals, erectors, etc..) can NEVER be strong enough. They support everything you do.

care to back this up? tommorow i might go hunt down some videos, but what you are suggesting is a bit of a physiological impossibility. OLers specifically use their quads for many reasons, among them, they can go farther down, and its necessary for things like front squats at the end of the clean.