new diet..

[cmdubs]

I eat 7% lean ground beef cooked in the foreman pretty regularly when bulking. I think I ate about a pound last night..lol.

 

[JKurz1]

I think you need to reread my post. I don't know what you find obscene, wrong, or outdated but I think you are not reading correctly:

1) I didn't say live on fast food - I specifically said not to eat it all the time
2) What I meant was - don't worry about eating ultra-healthy all the time. For the purposes of gaining muscle it can make it a lot harder to consume the required calories.
3) No one has ever not gained muscle as a result of a moderate amount of fast food but not getting enough calories and protein will certainly screw your efforts. If you have any idea what some high caliber athletes eat, it would shock you. Talking about guys squatting 700 and jerking 480 overhead with absolutely massive thighs, back, and shoulders. Is it optimally healthy for longevity, No. Will it keep your from getting big, No. Can it serve to provide calories and protein, Yes.
4) I don't think anyone in their right mind argues with squats, deads, benches, rows etc...
5) If he starts to pack on too much fat while bulking he needs to cut his calories back (rare for a lean ecto build). You don't need to get bogged down by bullshit if you are lean, just common sense. I don't tell him to get obese or anything.

This guy is lean - he needs to eat more and concentrate on the big lifts. His purpose is to gain. I don't see how any of this is bad. My post is fairly clear - perhaps you misread it.

Actually, I didn't misread your post. I strongly disagree with your thoughts and imput on diet. There is a very large difference between what the powerlifters/sumos eat and what bodybuildiers eat. I'll get into in later when I have more time.

 

[Madcow2]

Actually, I didn't misread your post. I strongly disagree with your thoughts and imput on diet. There is a very large difference between what the powerlifters/sumos eat and what bodybuildiers eat. I'll get into in later when I have more time.

So...if he eats a whopper a week - he won't grow? What about if he doesn't get enough calories and protein? Which is the bigger obstacle to him (especially considering he's already lean so his baseline intake does not provide for excess)?

How can you even have a strong opinion on this - this is common sense. But then again, we've gone round and round before so we have a history of abysmally effective communication.

Muscle is muscle regardless of whether it's a PL or a BBer - adequate nutrients and caloric intake will provide for growth. As to how lean you wish to keep yourself, well - he's already lean and you don't get fat overnight so add more to the baseline requirement. Whether you wish to spend all day counting grams of protein,carbs,fat and measuring your food, a caloric excess in a balanced diet is all that is required. One option is going to be very time consuming and a pain in the ass while the other will work just as well for someone who isn't concerned about a razor like margin (i.e. BBer entering competition in a few weeks) and can be monitored without a lot of effort.

I'm interested in how your own theory is so "obscenly" different. Shit, this gets said all the time on this board and it's kind of a basic building block of nutrition so I guess we are all about to hear some cutting edge stuff that is going to totally rearrange our understanding. Either that or it will be wrong or applicable only to those who believe obscessive dietary accounting is a requirement to put on muscle which is for the most part a small and disillusioned minority of the world.

 

[BOOEY]

So...if he eats a whopper a week - he won't grow? What about if he doesn't get enough calories and protein? Which is the bigger obstacle to him (especially considering he's already lean so his baseline intake does not provide for excess)?

How can you even have a strong opinion on this - this is common sense. But then again, we've gone round and round before so we have a history of abysmally effective communication.

Muscle is muscle regardless of whether it's a PL or a BBer - adequate nutrients and caloric intake will provide for growth. As to how lean you wish to keep yourself, well - he's already lean and you don't get fat overnight so add more to the baseline requirement. Whether you wish to spend all day counting grams of protein,carbs,fat and measuring your food, a caloric excess in a balanced diet is all that is required. One option is going to be very time consuming and a pain in the ass while the other will work just as well for someone who isn't concerned about a razor like margin (i.e. BBer entering competition in a few weeks) and can be monitored without a lot of effort.

I'm interested in how your own theory is so "obscenly" different. Shit, this gets said all the time on this board and it's kind of a basic building block of nutrition so I guess we are all about to hear some cutting edge stuff that is going to totally rearrange our understanding. Either that or it will be wrong or applicable only to those who believe obscessive dietary accounting is a requirement to put on muscle which is for the most part a small and disillusioned minority of the world.

But fast food is unhelathy, peroid. So what if it has a lot of calories? I would rather get my cals from healthy sources and force feed myself, than scarf down a Big Mac, which is loaded with staurated fat and processed meat. That's just me.

I think a major point for newbies to understand is that just because someone is big, it doesn't mean they are healthy. Think long term. The shit we put in our bodies now will effect us as we get older.

 

[Madcow2]

But fast food is unhelathy, peroid. So what if it has a lot of calories? I would rather get my cals from healthy sources and force feed myself, than scarf down a Big Mac, which is loaded with staurated fat and processed meat. That's just me.

I think a major point for newbies to understand is that just because someone is big, it doesn't mean they are healthy. Think long term. The shit we put in our bodies now will effect us as we get older.

I wholeheartedly agree with that but the goal of eating a consistently healthy wholesome diet is separate from adding muscle as you said. The two can certainly intersect (and it takes some effort and this is the best of all worlds) but gaining muscle does not require an ultra clean diet. Plus how many BBers sacrifice cholesterol profile or blood pressure to get some gains - that sport is pretty damn far from a vision of 100% healthy concern? So many people have gotten bogged down in this mire doing everything in the world to eat ultra healthy but end up not getting enough calories. Particularly someone who begins very lean and then cleans up their diet further reducing base calories and then wonders why they are a "hardgainer". It's pretty hard to get fat for these people so it's easy to monitor with calipers/mirror over time.

 

[ChinkNasty]

i feel ya madcow...perhaps jkurz is the wrong person to dicuss this with as his dietary regimen is freakishly strict

 

[JKurz1]

i feel ya madcow...perhaps jkurz is the wrong person to dicuss this with as his dietary regimen is freakishly strict

You are absolutely correct! My diet is freakishly strict. I count cals in my head, I log what I eat, I know how many cals I burn walking to the drinking fountain.....I know what works. That's how I can go from 180 and sub 6.5% bf to 215-225lbs, never going about 10.......point is, it takes hard work to bulk cleanly.....thats why this game is 90% diet. Wil you make gains lifting heavy and eating a excess of "garbage" cals, damn right you will. Will you get fat? 90% will. SOme can eat whatever and gain 99% lean mass, while others eat 2 fries and gain a full bf %........then there are those who gain 20-30lbs eating like shit and either (a) cry about how they gained all this weight and get get it off, even while ating clean....and/oir (b) cut cals in such great excess that they lose every lb of muscle they put on and now become the infamous "skinny fat"...tell me madcow, we dont need to flame each other over this, but have you gotten under 8% bf in your life? Do you know how it feels to be completely diced, yet big?

Truth of the matter is, ANYONE can be a fat ass.........and ANYONE can be a skinny twerp, but to become a BIG, cut, strong twerp takes time, dedication and planning........if you need help with you diet, and can afford to gain only .5-1.5 lean pounds a week, buzz me.....if you want to gain 20lbs by next Friday, eat everything not nailed down.

I havent eaten fast food in 6 years. I havent had a cheat meal in 2. Is it because I'm strict? Sort of. But once you been away from that shit for a period of time, you have NO CRAVINGS for it.....trust me on this one bros, you can get the physique you want without eating shitty cals. Welcome to my world.

 

[Mithrandir]

jkurz, I have no money for purely good diet, I guess I will have to wait till I am out of college and have a real job..but at the same time, I don't eat fast food anymore, this site has helped me plenty..and booey is right too, even if the Whopper give syou cals that you need to grow, you will get shit in your arteries and die before you see your grandkids. so, you need to look at your inside health (eating good foods) and your outside health (eating good foods (if you want to grow, you wil have to eat more, unless you do not care about your inside health) and doing the basic movements, as madcow has said). I don't know how you cheated in 2 years, that is amazing, i mean, that is awesome. almost inhuman.

madcow is right to a point though, if this guy is working it hard and eating alot, yet STILL not getting enough cals, then EVERYTHING he is doing is going down the drain. if he is busy or has to skip cooking a turkey burger or making tuna sandwhiches then buying that bigmac (I recommend taco C, personally if yuo are giong to eat out) will help the cause more than skipping..but with time you wil learn to plan, so you do not have to eat that shit...when I get rich, I will hire a Maria, and she will make all my shit for me, man the day I get maria.

 

[cmdubs]

You are absolutely correct! My diet is freakishly strict. I count cals in my head, I log what I eat, I know how many cals I burn walking to the drinking fountain.....I know what works. That's how I can go from 180 and sub 6.5% bf to 215-225lbs, never going about 10.......point is, it takes hard work to bulk cleanly.....thats why this game is 90% diet.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, the original thread starter is a NATURAL lifter...so your ability to gain 45 lbs and only gain 4% bf is a little out of context in this case.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

If someone were to replace one meal a week with a fast-food item such as a Big Mac, I seriously doubt there are going to be any detrimental effects. Bodybuilding in general is unhealthy. The body doesn't want to be carrying around all that extra mass. It makes your organs work harder. I can't see a Big Mac a week taking any time off someone's lifespan. You have other things to worry about other than a fucking bite of fast food. Should you choose not to eat it, fine. That goes for anyone. If they don't want to, then don't, but don't act like it's the pure essence of evil, shrouded inside a soggy bun and maggot meat.