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Nelson is correct, BB bench is pointless and outdated.

  • Thread starter Thread starter HighIntensity
  • Start date Start date
HighIntensity said:
if in the year 2003 I need to explain the theory behind more then 52 growth periods a year for your chest then were all in trouble.

Are you saying 3 chest exercises 3 times a week or 1 chest exercise 3 times a week? Can you please clarify?

Right now I'm working every body part 3 times every 8 days. Of course that is 1 exercise per bodypart. That is NOT overtraining. It is only maximiznig your growth periods.

Here is a quote from doggcrapp:

You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases. Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesnt--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they wont grow
 
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Nelson Montana said:
No one ever said benching wouldn't work. It just doesn't work as well or as safely as other movements.

As far as benching being good for the stabilizers, that's nonsense. Stabilizers come into play when the body needs to be STABILIZED. That means the body must either be moving through space (i.e. Dips) or attempting to balance itself. (i.e. Incline DB presses). When your back is braced on a flat bench, there's virtually no stabilizer action. That's why benching blows out so many shoulders. You're forced into one position and the shoulders take the brunt of stress and eventual damage. Soner or later, it'll get you.

How is it that your back is somehow more "braced" on a flat bench than on an incline?
 
Nelson Montana said:
No one ever said benching wouldn't work. It just doesn't work as well or as safely as other movements.

As far as benching being good for the stabilizers, that's nonsense. Stabilizers come into play when the body needs to be STABILIZED. That means the body must either be moving through space (i.e. Dips) or attempting to balance itself. (i.e. Incline DB presses). When your back is braced on a flat bench, there's virtually no stabilizer action. That's why benching blows out so many shoulders. You're forced into one position and the shoulders take the brunt of stress and eventual damage. Soner or later, it'll get you.

Thats a good explanation Nelson. I always new flat bench was bad on shoulders but i never knew quite why. Thanks for explaining that. Anyways i only flat bench rarely anymore. Do all wider grip inclines dums/bar and deep flys to make me wider. Peace.
 
You can say that there are other chest exercises as good as bb bench press... hell, you can even say that bb bench press is not the best exercise for building pecs- but to say that the bp is pointless and outdated is unfounded and untrue.
 
I would like to see nelson's comments on dograps quote above :)
 
Flat BB bench gives my rotator cuffs fits so I avoid it. I do heavy dips, incline and flat flys. It seems that using DB's wherever possible causes the least amount problems for me.
 
Spectre said:
I wouldn't say pointless, maybe over emphasized.
>>
The comment is a little too general, it's highly dependant on goals and the person.
Ditto.
Originally posted by Lift Chief
You can say that there are other chest exercises as good as bb bench press... hell, you can even say that bb bench press is not the best exercise for building pecs- but to say that the bp is pointless and outdated is unfounded and untrue.
Ditto again.

Like I said in the other thread, I personally think the bench press is an inferior exercise and downright harmful for many people. However, it's certainly not worthless.


Regarding the inherent dangers of the move, here's a short article from Fred Hatfield regarding the bench press. (I'd like to test the "little patented gizmo" he describes.)

BENCH PRESS
Your pectoral muscles ("called "pecs") are developed with bench presses. It's potentially dangerous, so have a spotter close by at all times. NEVER bench press alone! Have your spotter help you lift the bar out of the uprights and to a position directly over your chest. Lower the weight to your chest and press it back up to arms' length again. Then, after performing the required number of reps, have the spotter assist you in placing the bar back on the uprights. You can emphasize your "pecs" more if your elbows are away from your sides (perpendicular to your torso) during the movement, and your front deltoids more if your elbows are kept close to your sides during the movement.

Much of the danger inherent in this exercise can be eliminated by using a "Monolift" machine. This new device allows you to position the bar directly over your chest BEFORE you unrack the bar. While bench pressing, special spotting platforms ensure that, should the bar be dropped accidentally or should you miss the lift, the weight will not come down on you. Then, rather than your training partner helping you rack the bar, he rotates the cradle hooks under the bar while it's still held over your chest.

There are two particularly troublesome techniques I see all too often among bench pressers. One is the dangerous practice of using a thumbless grip. The notion that a thumbless grip will somehow alter the angle or quality of stress you're delivering to your pecs is outrageously dumb. Keep your thumbs around the bar!

The second practice is just as outrageous. I've heard benchers say that by keeping your feet off the floor -- suspended over the bench or resting on the bench -- somehow improves the isolation of the pecs and therefore the adaptive overload being delivered to your pecs. The truth is that while your feet are off the floor, you're always slightly off balance on the narrow bench you're lying on, and various stabilizer muscles are attempting to keep you from falling off the bench. This superfluous muscular activity is detracting from the stress you can deliver to the pecs. It is certainly NOT improving it! Besides, being off balance while a heavy weight is hovering over your face and throat is downright asking for trouble!

But these two troublesome techniques pale in their potential for disaster in comparison to the design of the bench itself! Consider: Lying on your back with 300-400 or more pounds in your hands pressing your scapulae into the flat bench beneath. You lower the bar to your chest. But the scapulae are pinned to the bench and cannot slide inwards as you lower the bar. And neither can they slide outward as you raise the bar off your chest. This is not good! It causes undue stress on the tendons of the long heads of your biceps. The results?
· Nagging long-lasting pain from biceps tendinitis
· You can’t lift as much
· Far less strength is developed
· Poor sports performance.

On top of that, all benches are made to be 16 or more inches off the ground. Just because the rules of powerlifting dictate it. This is downright dangerous for shorter athletes who have to go into spinal hyperextension in order to keep their feet flat on the ground for better stability. The results?
· low back trauma
· less stability during training and therefore greater exposure to injury and less weight being lifted
· poor sports performance, or (worse)
· ruined sports career from unnecessary injury

Now picture this: Same weight, same bench. But with a little patented gizmo built into the bench that allows your scapulae to slide in as you lower the bar, and back out as you press it back upward. This is how Mother Nature intended for your shoulder girdle to operate. The results?
· Far less chance of biceps tendinitis
· 10 percent more weight lifted
· greater strength is developed
· no unnecessary trauma to the lumbar spine
· better sports performance, not only because you’re stronger but because you’re healthier!

You just won’t believe it until you’ve experienced it! You and your clients are gonna LOVE it!

DUMBBELL BENCH PRESS
I favor dumbbell bench presses over benching with a bar because you can achieve greater adaptive stress with dumbbells. Dumbbells will tend to force you to keep your upper arms perpendicular to your torso while lowering them. Many benchers will allow their elbows to drift inward toward their sides while using a straight bar. This happens because there's a natural tendency to use the anterior (frontal) deltoids to assist in moving the bar, thereby robbing the pecs of some stress.

Also, dumbbells allow you to employ a technique that will improve the adaptive stress being delivered to your pecs even more. By carefully (under total control) allowing the dumbbells to drift slightly off balance toward the outside, you will have to "fight" harder to raise them. This controlled outward drift allows you to use superior weight while getting the same benefits afforded by regular flyes. Regular flyes are done with very light weights, whereas modified dumbbell benches employ far heavier weight. Again, here's a little technique that tends to improve the quality of adaptive stress.
 
FreakMonster said:


Are you saying 3 chest exercises 3 times a week or 1 chest exercise 3 times a week? Can you please clarify?

Right now I'm working every body part 3 times every 8 days. Of course that is 1 exercise per bodypart. That is NOT overtraining. It is only maximiznig your growth periods.

Here is a quote from doggcrapp:


As I aid early thats 3 chest exercises per week = 12 sets. And yes it is the same thinking as Doggcrap.
 
Bench pressing seems to be a good compound movement, meaning it hits shoulders tris and chest all decently, but when the bar hits my chest it still would have a few more inches to go before i felt it really working my chest. When doing incline the stretch is much greater and my chest feels like it is the main muscle working for a greater period of time during the rep. I am also 6'3 with long arms, which may have something to do with it also. I did build my foundation in my youth doing flat benches, just as i am sure about everyone else who ever picked up a weight as a teen did.
 
Did I say worthless? It is pointless. IE. I can cause more harm then good. You never have to touch BB bench for a nice chest, there for it is imop pointless.
 
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