Legs, right above the knee...?

[The Shadow]

Gym science......??

It is simply unbelievable to think that your chest will look the same whether you do inclines exclusively or declines exclusively.....


Again - Larry Scott for his bis, tris and delts......look for a recent pic - the difference is amazing....

Fold is right on the money imo.

So - the general consensus seems to be that training can cause localized sorenesss, but that may or may not be where the stimulation actually occured??? Meaning that on preacher curls - although soreness is in the lower region - that doesn't mean that there was any greater emphasis on said area?????

Sorry - don't buy that.

 

[The Shadow]

btw - since someone brought up the chest - I know of numerous bb'ers who brought their upper chest into line with lower pecs by doing inclines only.....according to you guys that shouldn't be possible

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Corn - Again, it's just that inclines may have been a better stimulus for their pectorals. I do only inclines now and my chest looks no different then when I only did flat - it's just bigger overall. This is 10+ years later. Not that I'm saying my anectdotal evidence proves anything conclusively on that matter.

The fact is that the pectoralis major group consists of two "muscles" (the sternal and clavicular heads). It may not be beyond the realm of possibility that one who is genetically predisposed to having a large clavicular head may find that a certain excersise recruits this head more effectively than another (clearly this is not the case with my chest). But again, the more likely situation is that some people respond better to inclines, or just a change in movement, and attest the growth they are seeing to something it is not. Scientifically speaking, both heads of the pec major should fully "fire" when placed under significant load.

Bfold - A squat is a compound movement which also uses the hip, a joint that does not operate the same way the elbow or knee does. If you change your squat stance, just like changing your benching position or pull-up position, you will of course place the empasis on different muscles.

Lagging bodyparts are "brought up" by simply giving that individual bodypart more attention than others. It's not out of line with anything that I'm saying.

 

[The Shadow]

Scientifically speaking, both heads of the pec major should fully "fire" when placed under significant load.

/B]

...but yet that doesn't seem to be the case...


Then why not do simply one exercise for each bodypart then, since the exercise will hit all areas of the muscle - why not do simply flyes for chest or kickbacks for tris?

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Corn - Damn you respond fast! Yes, you could just do one excersise per bodypart. That's the way I train. I change some of them up every now and then just for variety, and again, because with compound movements you are going to change the emphasis by changing positioning/grip/etc, but all in all my workout stays just as you suggested.

Flyes most likely stimulate your chest more than a pressing movement, but we all know that there appears to be more favorable hormonal response from doing the compound movements, so IMO they are worth doing.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Also, realize that not all muscles can me trained this way, by design. The shoulder wouldn't respond well to only one isolation movement (or even compound movement), but each of the individual heads of the deltoid serve different functions, just as doing exclusively seated calf raises won't effectively develop you calves. Please don't think that is what I am advocating.

 

[The Shadow]

Flyes most likely stimulate your chest more than a pressing movement, but we all know that there appears to be more favorable hormonal response from doing the compound movements, so IMO they are worth doing.

True - exactly why you need a stretch position for every muscle group - ie - different exercises. = multi-angular = pof = so that the muscle is hit from origin to insertion

 

[bignate73]

you isolation guys keep missing the point....

muscle GROUPS work synergistically. quads work as a team with one having a better mechanical advantage at different points in the motion than another. wide, narrow, heels up, heels down. now you are talking about more than the quads. you are talking hams, adductors, glutes, calves. its not as cut and dry to talk about a multi joint MOVEMENT SPECIFIC exercise. if we were talking about a single joint movement then we can get into muscle specificity, but you didnt.

as for those nice heel up squats....great for getting some shearing forces on the knee...thats why you feel the stress so much above the knee, sure tons of quad involvement...but at what cost?


"Then why not do simply one exercise for each bodypart then, since the exercise will hit all areas of the muscle - why not do simply flyes for chest or kickbacks for tris?"

because you get whats called pattern overload. repetition through a patterned movement the body becomes accustomed and efficient at that movement and thus recruits the least amount of fibers to accomplish the task. simple changes can override that though....hence different movements, multiple angles, grips, tempo etc.

.....and yes....gym science.

 

[The Shadow]

, multiple angles

LMAO - isn't that pof training after all??????

 

[bignate73]

ah i see your point. maybe you shouldnt laugh too soon. yes multiple angles for pressing, extension etc. BUT... if you are referring to your idea that you should turn your toes out, you missed the point. if you are trying to use POF training as your argument, then a class in injury prevention and biomechanics might be in order as well. if you know anything about a hinge joint, you know it bends efficiently ONE WAY. anything outside that one way will produce shearing forces or stress on that joint laterally. since you were talking about the knee, then we are looking at the ACL, PCL and the MCL (ligaments that hold the knee under stress from hyperextension, excessive flexion and stress from side to side). so what you propose is to a) stress the knee laterally, under high load to strengthen, or increase muscle mass while at the same time weakening the very ligaments that hold the knee together under stress. POF is not the case when you turn the toes in or out, not by a stretch.

at the expense of sounding cautious, there are ways to train safely, effectively and still make progress in bodybuilding. (i know this is a stretch for this board)