Legs, right above the knee...?

[coolcolj]

Yeah and I also do em with a pretty wide stance, well its a must for me to get upright.

Also vertical jumping puts meat there if your legs grow like mine.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Corn - I know where you stand on this, and respect your opinion, but your EMG analysis argument is flawed. Many factors can skew the results, which is why you see conflicting EMG studies all the time.

As far as soreness and "feeling" the muscle working, that has to do more with tendons, insertions and proprioception than any localized growth. Once you hit the muscle with a heavy enough load, the ability to selectively recruit seems to disappear. Even the majority of the PT community now realizes this as well.

 

[The Shadow]

Corn - I know where you stand on this, and respect your opinion, but your EMG analysis argument is flawed. Many factors can skew the results, which is why you see conflicting EMG studies all the time.

As far as soreness and "feeling" the muscle working, that has to do more with tendons, insertions and proprioception than any localized growth. Once you hit the muscle with a heavy enough load, the ability to selectively recruit seems to disappear. Even the majority of the PT community now realizes this as well.

So....how do you explain it to all the lifters such as the ones who have posted that "localized" growth happened when they chose an exercise like front squat

What do you mean by heavy enough load as the question is geared morte to bb'ing than plftng?

 

[MarshallPenniford]

The "localized" growth that they think they experience, is more likely a result of the muscle just recently growing (perhaps from a change in movement) and them attributing the increased size in the desired area to the excersise targeting the area, rather than the fact that, most likely, the whole muscle grew.

My comment about load has nothing to do with powerlifting type weights. Even with the weights used in bodybuilding, or even rehab, you're going to end up recruiting fibers from the whole muscle.

Can you show me a bodybuilder who has successfully changed the shape of one of their muscles without implants or synthol?

 

[The Shadow]

The "localized" growth that they think they experience, is more likely a result of the muscle just recently growing (perhaps from a change in movement) and them attributing the increased size in the desired area to the excersise targeting the area, rather than the fact that, most likely, the whole muscle grew.

My comment about load has nothing to do with powerlifting type weights. Even with the weights used in bodybuilding, or even rehab, you're going to end up recruiting fibers from the whole muscle.

Can you show me a bodybuilder who has successfully changed the shape of one of their muscles without implants or synthol?

Not a fair question as bb'ers use pof/multi angular training from day 1.

Larry Scott.

Look at his peak in his book Loaded Guns after doing spider curls exclusively - looked like Robby Robinson.....

So a muscle will grow due to a "change in movement"...isn't that what we are talking about arcs, angles and degrees of pull???


Why do you think most powerlifters and bb'ers LOOK so differently. Most lifters have flattish but huge muscles....

 

[MarshallPenniford]

I think the growth could occur from changing angles after a plateau of sorts has been reached. This has to do more with neurological factors, and the fact that of course, with non-hinged joint compound movements, you will change the focus on the muscles by changing the angle/grip etc. For example, you can change the muscles that your bench press is emphasizing (more triceps less pectorals), but you are not going to add extra mass to only the lower inch of your chest by doing declines.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Powerlifters vs. Bodybuilders? I think that's simply a body fat issue, and the fact that they are not training the same muscles that a BBer might. There is a strongman right now who is very, very lean. He looks just like a bodybuilder -- at least in the shots I saw.

 

[vinylgroover]

I'm with Marshall. I too don't buy the 'angles' theory.

I've never done anything other than bicep curls for my bi's, yet i have peaked biceps. I've never done lateral raises for delts yet i have 'capped' side delts. Try as i might, i just can't get away form the conclusion that all one can do is make a muscle larger or smaller. Genetics will bring out any other traits or inherent muscle characteristics such as shape, separation, striations etc.

 

[bignate73]

Do the leg extensions as I described them and tell me where your soreness is located......

you missed my point totally. i know how and when the VMO is active and i know the methods to rehabilitate the VMO but its not applicable to bodybuilding for the most part due to the extreme loads used. to add load to that via the leg extension FORCING the VMO to keep the kneecap on straight is bad advice. most of the young minds (and old) on here will take that advice and run with it and then when they "feel" it under their kneecap after repetitive overuse....they post some shit like "leg extensions ruined my knees" because they did them wrong to "isolate" the teardrop.

as for marshall's responses, again spot on as far as exercise science goes. it may go against the grain of gym science, the latest pro's advice or anecdotal evidence, but its the way things are.

 

[b fold the truth]

I don't like leg extentions at all...seems as if I always end up with knee problems when I do them very long or hard.

If you can't isolate...then do you mean that a squat is a squat? I do know that you can put different stress on a certain section of muscle or muscles if you do the exercise differently...for sure. I mean...if squat is a squat...then it would not matter how wide your stance was...but it does matter.

If a bodybuilder can not change the shape of their muscles...how on earth do they every bring up a lagging bodypart??? If they want to bring up the outer head of their tric...they can find a way. If they want to bring up their teardrop....they can do that too. They just need to find an exercise that puts more stress on those muscles.

I like hack squats or elevated heel squats for lower quad development. Full on both.

B True