Excess Protein - Useless or not? Which is it!?

[Tom Treutlein]

Well then let's see is we can come to some agreement...

2g/lb is ludicrous.

Yea or nay?

 

[ohashi]

It's an overkill, as far as I'm concerned. IMO, 1 gram per pound of LBM off-cycle and 1.5 grams per pound of LBM on gear are more than adequate intake values.

 

[poopmonkey]

Someone on animal's board, either DC or IA, recommend 2grams/lb for guys on gear.

I realize you're just trying to find some sort of common ground, so with that in mind, for natural trainers, I think most everyone would agree that the optimal amount is less than 2grams/lb.

For guys on gear? I don't have a clue.

 

[gregory]

Protein requirements should be based on your lean body mass. Taking fat into the account throws everything off.

If i weigh 240 with 20% bf i sould only take in 192 grams following the 1 gram per lb. @ 1.5 grams per lb i would take in 288 grams. This makes a lot more sense.

 

[MrMakaveli]

Alright, we've got so many people saying how more than 1g per pound is good, yet science and many studies show us that 0.8-1.0g per pound is all one needs, and the rest really isn't utilized.

Actually, most guys take in too much protein. It isn't that too much protein will hurt them - assuming they are healthy to begin with - but too much protein can actually inhibit gains. I know, it sounds totally contradictory to what you read everywhere, but it is true. Let me explain.

The ability of the body to grow is effected by the ratio of protein to carbs. It is an inverted U shaped curve - or bell curve - where the top or highest point of the curve is a ratio of 12-15% protein to carbs (diet consisting of ~15% protein). At one peak you have all carbs, at the other you have all protein. It has to do with thermogenesis and hormones.

So, if a skinny guy wants to gain weight, he needs to plan a diet where he gets 15% of his calories from protein.
Now this may seem contradictory to the general rule of 1 gram per pound bodyweight. I'm not saying that a guy can't gain weight with more than 15% calories from protein, I'm only saying that weight gain is greatest at 15%. He will be ok with an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle. In fact, everybody should use FFM instead of bodyweight to plan protein intake, but sometimes it's just too hard to figure it out, so most people use bodyweight.

For a guy who isn't all that skinny, or even a little fat, he should increase his protien intake to 20-25%. This will increase thermogenesis and prevent some fat gain as calories increase above maintenance.

That is taken from an FAQ on the HST website.

Okay, so, which is it? This is like the Carb+Fat yea or nay dilemma...
There are things supporting both sides. Tons of protein (DC and his trainees) and studies showing lowered levels of protein...

There is generally no answer. Too much can generally is only going to hurt through thermic effect of food and also chronic over-consumption will increase the enzymes that break down protein causing issues when you lower it back down (I can dig up the study if you want it).

Stick to 1-1.5g depending on carb levels. Unless your on anabolics I cannot see how anymore would be warannted or benificial.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to see that study.

 

[bran987]

good to see we came to a conclusion on this thread

 

[anthrax]

My 2 cents :

A lot of people think that by taking huge amounts of protein they'll get in an anabolic phase
Which is not true if their overall calories intake is insufficient
So they'll take even more protein and claim that 1.5 or 2g/lb of protein is not enough while they should "just" take more calories

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Awesome.

 

[gregory]

My 2 cents :

A lot of people think that by taking huge amounts of protein they'll get in an anabolic phase
Which is not true if their overall calories intake is insufficient
So they'll take even more protein and claim that 1.5 or 2g/lb of protein is not enough while they should "just" take more calories

Exactly! And then you'll hear people saying things like, " i incresed my protein intake by 100 grams and started making gains again". Well no shit, your calorie intake went up by 400 cals. Protein intake is important but not THAT important. You can't force your body to do anything. I have never recovered quicker by taking 400 grams of protein per day vs. 200 grams. The soreness always stayed the same exact ammount of time. No difference. The only time it made a remote difference was on a cycle. Other then that, my protein inteke is about 150-200 grams per day. No more. And i have no problems making gains in the gym.

BTW: I really started thinking about this topic some time back when i observed all the ripped and decently muscular African bush men. Those guys protein intake and overall calorie consumption is very low. They can live for months on end in a deep state of ketosis with minnimal nourishment and still carry a good ammount of muscle. Protein is not the only player here by far. The supplement companies have everyone brainwashed.