Zinc: strong aromatase inhibitor - MUST READ!!

[gainerxxl]

Re: i think..

I think it is safe to say were better off sticking to what has been tested time and time again with minimal or no side effects.

oh, yes, you´re right, Anastrazole is proven to have no long term effects on males, and who cares about lipid profiles? Tamoxifen is surely harmless, complete estrogen suppression by letrozole can only be great for your health....

Zinc is non toxic over the duration of a cycle, works surprisingly good and costs about nothing.

 

[buffdoc]

Re: Re: Too much zinc...

Good post by SilentMethod...
100-150 mg ED is definately a bad idea.

Yeah, these are the dose ranges where they found immune suppression.

 

[gainerxxl]

Re: Re: Re: Too much zinc...

Yeah, these are the dose ranges where they found immune suppression.

As I mentioned above, you should take additional copper, if you plan to take high dose zinc for a longer time. All the studies I have read about zinc toxicity and immune suppression were caused by an deficieny of copper, since zinc somewhat interfers with copper absorption.
Any good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement has a good amount of copper in it (my favourite is Multi Pro 32 X by AST, contains 60mg of zinc and copper) and is a must on any cycle.

 

[Silent Method]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Too much zinc...

All the studies I have read about zinc toxicity and immune suppression were caused by an deficieny of copper, since zinc somewhat interfers with copper absorption.

I have seen a study citing abnormally high zinc levels as the direct cause of neutropenia.

IMO, simply taking steps to assure your copper levels are up to snuff is no way to deal with the high levels of zinc your advising.

 

[buffdoc]

[
BTW: I´m not some stupid, half educated "study cut and paster" as you might think. I have a bachelor degree in theoretical medicine, now mastering in pharmacology and microanatomy. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wsa cetainly not implying that you were. I notice that the only thing in my post you responded to here was the "cut and paste" remark (which stems from a recent thread I initiated about "scientific evidence" and how it gets bandied about on this board, not as a personal insult to you). I sense your enthusiasm for zinc; in fact, I've been telling my male patients on HRT for years to take some extra Zn to possibly inhibit their aromatase. The zinc/aromatase connection is not "new" news.
But "Zinc: A Powerful Aromatose Inhibitor!?" I don't think so.
BTW, it seems that all your studies, both rat and human, were done with zinc deficient subjects!! Does giving them zinc and seeing hormones change necessarily translate into large men on high-dose test reliably inhibiting aromatase enough to avoid estrogenic symptoms? You and your friends seem to think so. But why are you the first to find this out?
Just be wary of saying it's fine to take 200mg per day of zinc; people may NOT take that w/ a grain of salt, and what if they're juicing, perhaps their immune systems are down slightly and then they hit it off w/ large doses of zinc?
You seem to have a personal emotional investment in the issue, you have some degrees, and you and your friends are doing fine with this regimen. But your post comes off like "Hey, this is the greatest and the latest! And completely safe, too. And look, the studies prove it!" That's the part I take issue with.
I'd like nothing better than to have a safe, non-toxic, "natural" aromatase inhibitor. But with many vitamins and minerals, excessive levels can be as bad as deficiency levels.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I can't belive what I'm about to say:

I agree with Pat Arnold. (gulp)

I think I have an adversion to zinc ever since I did an interview with Victor Conte. (errrg)

Anyway, this is the deal: Zinc is necessary for immune function and development of hormone prduction, including testosterone. (As well as increasing sperm count and seminal fluid) It also controls estrogen and prolactin. (For all you prolactin paranoids). Sounds good, eh? But it's nothing new. Vince Gironda was talking about this in 1965.

But like all nutrients, MORE doesn't mean more effect. Any nutrient can only allow the body to work optimally and it will discard the rest. But in the case with zinc, it doesn't leave the body very quickly so a toxic dosage can result over time. An extra 25 mgs along with a balanced diet is a good idea and it's more than you can use and need. Over 150mgs a day is definitely not recommended.

 

[40butpumpin]

This usn´t just cut and paste expertise, it´s based upon the experience of very many german juicers on the anabolic boards, myself and some competitive bodybuilders I know personally. It works great for most who tried it. I have used a lot of test in the past, always had some estrogen related side effects until I started taking 150mg of zinc daily. 500mg of Testex/week gave me no bloat at all, I actually stayed ripped and veiny.
Some long time juicers in my gym are still grateful that I talked them into taking 100mg of zinc along with their test. They were absolutely suprised about the strong effect.

I just thought some studies along with personal experience would make my post more informative.

BTW: I´m not some stupid, half educated "study cut and paster" as you might think. I have a bachelor degree in theoretical medicine, now mastering in pharmacology and microanatomy.

Someone help me out here, "cut and paste expertise?" Maybe I'm missing something here so if I am someone please tell me.

buffdoc, I thought your thread suggested not throwing results of studies AT each other or using them to make one appear more intelligent than in reality. By the way I've not seen much of this during my time here. You can't possibly be suggesting not using study results at all, are you? These things generate interesting discussion, like what's taking place right now in this thread. I sure didn't interpret this as throwing a study at someone without knowing what it was even saying. Man it's gonna get awful boring around here if every time someone posts a result of a study the "cut and paste expertise" police comes running. I mean how do ideas grow if not for this sort of stimuli?

Again, if I'm just being an ass I'm sorry but this just doesn't seem right to me.

Peace.

 

[bunkka]

I take a nightly Zinc, Magnesium, B6 supplement stack (purchased seperately, which is cheaper yet should do the same thing as ZMA 'products'.... right?)

Would it be taken optimally for these purposes, before bed, as well?

I'm wondering how this correlates with zinc's function of improving hormone levels while sleeping.

Interesting.

 

[notatrase]

Someone help me out here, "cut and paste expertise?" Maybe I'm missing something here so if I am someone please tell me.

buffdoc, I thought your thread suggested not throwing results of studies AT each other or using them to make one appear more intelligent than in reality. By the way I've not seen much of this during my time here. You can't possibly be suggesting not using study results at all, are you? These things generate interesting discussion, like what's taking place right now in this thread. I sure didn't interpret this as throwing a study at someone without knowing what it was even saying. Man it's gonna get awful boring around here if every time someone posts a result of a study the "cut and paste expertise" police comes running. I mean how do ideas grow if not for this sort of stimuli?

Again, if I'm just being an ass I'm sorry but this just doesn't seem right to me.

Peace.

Completely agreed. I like to have an author post studies to support his standpoint. It lets me know that he is not bullshiting or misinterpreting data. It adds definite credibility IMHO.

 

[MR. BMJ]

One thing that should not be overlooked, and buffdoc picked-up on this very nicely, is that there was a deficiency in these subjects. I'm no expert in this area, but I do know that this can and will make a difference.

Interesting thread though. The only way to really answer this question will probably be to have tests run while taking zinc (before starting as well...obviously).

I take between 50-100mg's per day when I remember...but usually only when I have colds...lol.

I don't think anybody is being an ass here...150-200 seems a little high though, as stated for toxicity reasons.

BMJ