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working on a new routine

Are you seriously asking me? If my response is going to actually change your opinion, then I'll honestly reply but if you're just asking me to waste journal space then I opt out of it. I'm not here to change your mindset about anything. If you ask me a question, and if you're sincere about it then I'll respond sincerely too.
 
Are you seriously asking me? If my response is going to actually change your opinion, then I'll honestly reply but if you're just asking me to waste journal space then I opt out of it. I'm not here to change your mindset about anything. If you ask me a question, and if you're sincere about it then I'll respond sincerely too.

i think he's seriously asking you lol..

also what did you have in mind when you were talking about good ways to bring up my squat/deadlift?? If you have any ways for bench also that'd be great! I am probably going to be switching up routines in about a month, so any ideas would be awesome

Does it involve doing a lot of singles? Just a guess because i remember seeing them a lot in your journal :)

Thanks.
 
i think he's seriously asking you lol..

also what did you have in mind when you were talking about good ways to bring up my squat/deadlift?? If you have any ways for bench also that'd be great! I am probably going to be switching up routines in about a month, so any ideas would be awesome

Does it involve doing a lot of singles? Just a guess because i remember seeing them a lot in your journal :)

Thanks.

Actually, no. It would not involve a lot of singles. My training is different. As pointed out by ExtraMile above: you're a beginner. I wouldn't have you jump into singles and it's not like I do a lot of singles either. Before I actually answer your question, I'll go over my training just so you understand where I come from. I don't want to make this response very long because it will either make me look like a pompous jackass or it will bore the hell outta you.

I am 21 years old right now. I started lifting at 16 after 10th grade. I did the usual BB magazine routines...I then hopped on the Rippetoe bandwagon at the age of 18. I did 5x5 and Texas Method for a year and half. Did not end up with injury or anything. Then I goofed around for a while. Got many many shoulder dislocations over a year. Then injured my lower back. And then I was blessed to be nursed back to life to the guys from Ground Up Strength.

I've been training sincerely for strength since then. I dabble in a LOT of exercises most people who train for "strength" don't do. I do a shitload of Overhead Squats, Pistol Squats, Front Squats, Strict Standing Military Presses, Unilateral Military Presses, etc.

You mentioned me doing singles. I don't do singles always and there is a reason for them. So, I am currently lifting in the 400s for Deadlifts, right? Well, for 3 months I spent time "Consolidating" my strength within the range of 365-415. If you want to know more about Consolidation, check out this article: Strength Consolidation. Basically, what it entails is this:
There are 4 "phases" in all. Phase 1 is you taking 90% of your max, and you spend week 1 doing 10 singles. Then week 2 you do 8 doubles. Week 3 is 7 triples. So, you just took your 90% max and went from 10 sets of 1 rep to 7 sets of 3 reps. Thats pretty impressive right? Well, week 4 you do just 2 sets of max reps. Then, Phase 2 is basically 4 weeks which you spend taking that 90% max and doing 3 sets of whatever reps you can but you never ever hit failure. So you always leave something in the tank. Then, Phase 3 is you doing some quality volume where you do low reps - 3 to 1 usually and you have small increments. So, your 1 workout could be: 400x3, 410x3, 420x3, 430x2, 440x2, 450x1. Thats it. You focus on this for 2 weeks. Then Phase 4 is 3-4 weeks of singles. Week 1 you do 7-9 singles, Week 2 you do 4-5 singles, Week 3 you do 9-10 singles and Week 4 has 2-3 singles. In phase 4 you'll probably hit new weights and you won't get injured because you've gotten used to handling that heavy weight.

Is this confusing you? I hope not. This shouldn't matter right now but this is why I am doing singles. Come 3 weeks from now I'll be doing some solid rep work probably :)

Ok, so...this leads me to answering 2 questions:
1.) Why do I think Rippetoe/5x5 suck
2.) What ways can you improve your squat and deadlift. I'll make a separate post for that.
 
I have mentioned why I am not on the Rippetoe/5x5 stereotype bandwagon many times. I can't find the posts I've made before but I'll be fresh and voice my opinion out here.

To begin, let me discuss the principle behind 5x5/Rippetoe. These programs focus on linear periodization. Without getting into technical details, this means a trainee can keep adding 5 lbs to the bar every week at the minimum. Fine. Here is a list of reasons why I hate Rippetoe's program or 5x5 for that matter:

1.) These programs assume the only way to progress is to add weight to the bar. That is simply not true. You can "progress" through reps, sets, weight, rest intervals and quality of reps. If you want more info on this, check out this article: Strength Training with Single, Double, Triple Progression. Because of so many other ways to progress, I think only restricting yourself to adding weight is sub-par and far from ideal. Even for a beginner.

2.) Beginners need to learn lifts. Their progression doesn't need to be "planned". Each workout should be individually looked at and then depending on the trainees performance, progression should be suggested for the next session. Not everyone is the same and sometimes using the same weight but doing more sets or more reps is better at drilling the form down versus adding more weight simply because the required reps and sets were met. So the fundamental flaw is that every trainee is different - which is why form is never a black and white issue. You and me cannot have the same form for Deadlifts (for example). What we must adhere to is a set of guidelines: shoulders ahead of the bar, ass above level of knees and lower than the level of your head, don't squat the weight up, etc. These are all guidelines. Within these guidelines there are subtle differences and each of us is different in that - which is why your form on deadlifts will not be the same for every rep you do in your whole life. Your form will evolve and you will perfect your individual technique as you go along. So blanketing an entire exercise (particularly squats) is not correct.

3.) Rippetoe does not focus at ALL on mobility drills. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. When you have the whole fitness industry turning to mobility drills, foam rollers, etc...His programs lack any of that. It is assumed that trainees can squat deep. Most people cannot. They simply lack the mobility. Note: mobility is not the same thing as flexibility. Flexibility deals with the ability of a muscle to stretch or bend. Mobility deals with joints. That is why you find so many people having a "butt wink" while doing squats: they do not have the hip mobility to keep the spine erect the entire way. You have to work out these kinks before you start building a foundation, IMO.

4.) Lack of exercise variety. I think there are a LOT of exercises out there which beginners and all trainees should focus a LOT on. Front Squats, Overhead Squats, Core Training, Unilateral RDLs, Unilateral Presses, Pull-ups, etc. These "big bang" exercises are mostly negated - and some of them have an even bigger bang than Deadlifts and Squats and Bench Press. So I think the programs lack the flexibility of adding in some good exercises.

So this leads to a simple question: how would I train an absolute beginner? Well, the #1 agenda would be to make sure form is good - he is sticking to the guidelines for all exercises. Next, programming would be done on a week to week basis based on each individual workout. Most people workout 3x a week. I would not have the trainee follow a "program". I don't do "routines". I TRAIN. I use templates. So, the trainee's work would be laid out like this:

Monday: Lower Body Emphasis
Front Squats, Deadlifts, some form of rows, grip training and static core training

Wednesday: Upper Body Emphasis
Military Press, Pull-ups, some form a dumbbell press, some form of rows and a static core exercise thrown in and perhaps some bicep work if the trainee is over anxious about his/her guns

Friday: Full Body Training
Overhead Squat practice, Back Squats, Bench Press, some form of rows or pull-ups depending on which is weak point per say, and some static core training

This is a basic outline of what I'd have the trainee do. But the goal is that as the trainee improves, the template will evolve. I have one of my close friends who started lifting weights and wanted to drop weight from 265 lbs to 220 lbs and focus on strength. I had him do something very similar to this but as he got stronger, he couldn't handle heavy front squats and deadlifts on the same day, so he moved them to the full body day and eliminated the rows because he was already doing a lot of direct back work on the other days. These types of subtle changes come depending on the needs of the trainee and can't be written in stone.

I am by no means a hot shot or someone who thinks he knows everything. But, I do know some things which I have learnt from direct experience and from learning through the guys on Ground Up Strength. I know there are MUCH better ways to train a beginner other than Starting Strength or 5x5 type programs which are very narrow minded in their underlying principles.

If you want more info on this, check out the following articles..These articles aren't all written by GUS members. Most of them come from members of the Diesel Crew and Zach Evan-esh, Eric Cressey, Mike Robertson and Coach Jamie Hale who are all affiliates of GUS:

Ground Up Strength: The Honeymoon Period

Ground Up Strength: Teaching Versus Learning The Lifts

Ground Up Strength: Ignorance As A Form Of Progession- Revisited

Ground Up Strength: Deadlifts: Hips Too High, Too Low, or Juuuuuust Right

I hope I was able to answer your questions without coming across as a pompous self righteous asshole.
 
I forgot to add reason #5 why I don't like Rippetoe or his program. Injury Rate. The injury rate on trainees/beginners doing 5x5, Texas Method or Rippetoe's Starting Strength is unusually high. And whenever someone gets injured, all Rippetoe has to say is "suck it up. Shit happens." Shit does NOT happen. There is NO reason why a beginner or a trainee needs to get injured. It is a direct result of incorrect and improper programming. This is why simple adding weight to progress results in a compromise in form (at some point) and this leads to a development of bad habits in exercise execution and people end up getting hurt down the line. That is unacceptable IMO. We workout to be healthy, fit, strong and good looking. Nobody should be injured if it can be avoided or precautions can be taken.
 
that program looks really interesting.... to be honest, i don't know if it's something i'd enjoy doing in the near future, but maybe sometime down the road i'll check it out. I lift mainly because i love to lift and the challenge it presents me with... not to mention the obvious looks you attain from lifting :) i don't lift for anything specific besides enjoyment...

Interesting notes about rippetoes btw.
 
andalite, just skimmed through all of that info, but one part that stuck out to me is this:

"4.) Lack of exercise variety. I think there are a LOT of exercises out there which beginners and all trainees should focus a LOT on. Front Squats, Overhead Squats, Core Training, Unilateral RDLs, Unilateral Presses, Pull-ups, etc. These "big bang" exercises are mostly negated - and some of them have an even bigger bang than Deadlifts and Squats and Bench Press. So I think the programs lack the flexibility of adding in some good exercises."

now you probably havnt read that it is a popular choice to replace the light squats on wednesday of the intermediate 5x5 for front squats. It is also a popular thing to do that if your recovery is good enough add pullups onto the end of wednesdays workout because that only has a small amount of assistance exercises. Another thing you mensioned is core work, well on monday there are 2 weighted sets of hypers and 4 sets of weighted situps, then again on wednesday there is 3 sets of unweighted ab work, which personally I would choose hanging leg raise so the reps wouldnt be too high. That makes for 9 sets of core work per week, not including the work your abs and lower back get from squats, rows, deads, OHP and if you do bench like a powerlifter then your core is also worked with that.

unilateral RDL and presses and overhead squats are exercises which you need a good amount of balance for, and alot of people who arnt lifting for sports purposes wouldnt need to bring up their balance, and balance is needed anyway for deep squats and front squats if you do them. And if it was an athlete doing this program then Im sure his work outside of the gym like drills and plyo would work his balance anyway.

Finally you mensined not being able to vary the exercises, well you can swap OHP for incline, Rows for variations of the clean, you could do variations of the squat, like high box squat, normal box squats, low box squat, full squats, powerlifter squats, sumo stance squats, narrow stance squats etc and you cuold switch around some of the assistance stuff if you felt like it. The reason for the selection of exercises are quite simply they are the best exercises for size and strength and let you use alot of weight.

Squats, Deads, OHP/Incline, Rows/Cleans, Bench Press, Hypers, Situps, Pullups, Dips, BB Curl and Tricep Extension are the most basic exercises out there and make up alot of programs out there
 
^^^ But thats it. Not all those exercises you listed are the best for size OR strength. And even to get that size and/or strength you need to cover a lot of other factors.

I'm not going to argue with you about this because like you mentioned "andalite, just skimmed through all of that info" which is clearly a sign to me that I'm wasting my time. You're 15 years old and you know everything so good luck with your training.
 
hey guys lets not get too hostile in here lol..... can't wait to hit deads tomorrow :)-- also pumped for incline DB to try and hit 45s on my 2nd set..

just looked in the mirror and damn have i seen growth (especially in my upper and lower back)
 
You're 15 years old and you know everything so good luck with your training.

yep, thanks. Besides Im just going from my training experiences and what I have learnt from this site and i have never even heard of 'ground up strength' so I dont know the philsophy or training style of it.
 
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