When will people finally learn how to train??

[Debaser]

" Recovery and elite muscle building genetics ARE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE. There are 400 pro bodybuilders in this world. Do you think they are all different? Ronnie Coleman is king of the hill because he has incredible recuperative abilities (hardcore training 6 days a week), incredible genetics and the willpower to lift backbreaking poundages routinely. Dorian Yates didnt have close to the recuperative ability of Coleman but found his niche as far as staying away from overtraining, had good genetics and the willpower to lift backbreaking poundages routinely." by DoggCrap

This is exactly what I have been saying. To make a statement that people that are not on DC's routine do not know how to train is ridiculous. That is how the thread was presented.

Now before you start assuming that I advocate this or that in a routine, you need to stop, as I have not anywhere throughout this thread discussed my philosophy of training.

My reaction is simply to the arrogance of the initial statement.

I will restate, if people like DoggCraps routine then good for them.
Don't tell me that it's a new concept and that if your not on it then you don't know what you are doing.

There are too many others achieving results differently.

I'm sorry, but you are completely and utterly missing the point. First of all, that is not "exactly what you were saying," his entire post was written as a counter to yours. Maybe you should read it again. When did I say that DC was the only way to train? I said that if your primary goal is to build muscle, DC and HST will allow you to do it at the fastest rate possible.

So what if different people get results on any other program? Does that mean they are optimized for strength or size? If you gained 5 lbs of muscle in a year, sure those are "results," but would you be happy? I'm simply relaying the fastest way we know of to build muscle. You can disagree with me. But you'd be wrong.

 

[Zoomster]

So what if different people get results on any other program? Does that mean they are optimized for strength or size? If you gained 5 lbs of muscle in a year, sure those are "results," but would you be happy? I'm simply relaying the fastest way we know of to build muscle. You can disagree with me. But you'd be wrong.

In your opinion, based on the facts that you have now.

It is the fastest way to build muscle that you know of.

Quite franky, your last statement is hilarious.

This question of which routine is the "ultimate" has been around forever.

The over trainng issue has been addressed a thousand times in different routines.

How many Mr. Olympia contestants are maximizing their physique
using this routine?

Anyway, thanks for the debate, time for me to go train, my way!

 

[Ish]

I think the original point Zoomster was for newbies not juicing without learning how to train and diet properly. You've been doing this for a long time, so you've explored other options before hitting the gear. I could be wrong, but I thought that was the point. Learn to train and eat, and inform yourself about gear instead of just asking for the best cycle without knowing what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Debaser]

How many Mr. Olympia contestants are maximizing their physique
using this routine?

Wow. I can see now that logical reasoning won't work with you, because, quite frankly, you don't seem to be able to understand simple concepts. So I'll lay it all out for you one more time, real simple-like:

There is more than one way to build muscle. However, the rate at which you gain can be much faster from one program to the next. We know a LOT more than you seem to think we do on how muscle responds to training. Therefore programs can be created taking advantage of this knowledge, allowing for the fastest growth possible.

Since you can't understand that training more often [while still recovering] will yield faster growth (by the way, many OLYMPIA-LEVEL PHYSIQUES train their entire body TWICE A WEEK, though with much more volume than many of us can tolerate), think about this for a second:

How much muscle will you build if you train once a year? Obviously not as much as training once a month. And then not as much as once a week, which is probably what you do and what we're addressing. But, somehow, 2-3 times a week will NOT allow faster growth? Maybe you should try to explain that one.

And by the way, it's been proven that a third set is not going to produce much growth compared to doing only one set of an exercise, and after the third there are diminishing returns to the point of ineffectiveness.

 

[Punt]

Allright DeBaser!

I've been unable to stop pondering your theories on HST for the last few days, ever since I first read this post and all the supplemental info on HST.com (or whatever the URL is).

I thoroughly understand the logic behind HST, and it makes sense to me. You've done an excellent job explaining it, however I have a couple questions/concerns.

1) Clearly HST is based on the assumption that maximizing frequency is paramount for MAXIMIZING the rate of muscle growth over a given period of time. So, why not train everyday? I'm guessing that there is some physiological reason why 48 seems to be the "max" interval for recovery, but I have not seen it presented.

2) Can/should this period be adjusted with the use of gear?

3) 1 set per muscle group SEEMS wholy inadequate to stimulate growth, much less get a good workout it. I readily acknowledge that I have no idea how to guage what is necessary to stimulate growth, but, I know what it takes for me to feel exhausted after a workout, and 1 set per bodypart will not yield exhaustion. Do I need to relieve myself of this preconcieved notion that physical exhaustion is needed to stimulating muscle growth?

4) I tried HST this morning, except I did 2 sets (10-15 reps) of each excersize. (bench, rows, military, curls, extensions, shrugs, crunches). It took me about 35 minutes, which is about right, and I felt like I had a good, albeit medium intensity workout. If I do this EOD, will I be overtraining?

Thanks in advance for your reply. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Zoomster]

Understanding the principles of your basic elementary routine is not an issue.

Quite frankly, it's you that seems too have a limited thought process.

I train each bodypart 2 times over 8 days.

Two warm up sets and two work sets per movement, typcially
three excercises per bodypart, which translates to 6 work sets every fourth day per bodypart. Workouts last 45 - 60 minutes.
This system works great for me.

My preference.

 

[HULKSTER]

Bottom line is, AAS will get you a helluva lot farther ahead than you ever could without them. Hell, the guy who uses AAS and trains and eats half-assed will probably outdue the guy who uses no AAS, but trains like a mofo. Don't like it? TOUGH....bros have spent too many years getting ripped off by supplement companies, such as Weider's, with a bunch of hype and false advertising. It's time the tables have turned. When you buy AAS from a legit source, YOU WILL GET RESULTS. No more buying garbage supplements like Weider's and Cell-Tech and flushing your money down the toilet with every piss. Enjoy your Weider "ANIMAL PAK", I'll stick to what works.

 

[scotty green]

excellent post bro. I agree with you. Hell, I almost get pissed off when these guys new to training are asking for cycle advice. And to make it worse, guys here give advice. I also see these same guys in my gym who been training three months, then you see them wispering to the local dumbass steroid dealer in a corner. When these guys ask me for advice I tell them how to diet properly, but it doesnt sink in. Why ??? because our society wants everything NOW. Shit I could talk about this forever but it does no good so I give up.
peace

 

[casualbb]

I answered Punt's questions by PM, because a reply would be kinda off-topic.

-casual

 

[Mr.Kachok]

I imagine it wouldn't be bad for cutting as it has many sets and, therefore, you will burn more calories. Overtraining can become a problem on it though if your calories aren't high imo.

-sk

wow, i just tried it for the first time, doing 2 sets a muscle group, it was nice change of pace. Not as sore as when you lift single group only. I cut at 2500~ cal so im not 2 worried about a deficit.