What A Waste

[kingsbury]

This really wouldn't be that hard to prove or disprove if someone had a glucose meter. Just establish a baseline glucose level, take protein shake with water. Measture glucose levels. Repeat next day with milk in the shake.

i would also like to add that up is really down....there's too much proof for me to post here so just believe me.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson <thinking>: Hmm, what can I come up with today?

Nelson <thinking>: Let's see, one time I heard that eating a cat will give you better protein than eating a cow.

Nelson <posting on elite>: I can't believe this shit, you fools eat cow when you can actually be eating a cat. (Goes on for ten minutes how everyone is stupid and can't believe how foolish they are for eating cow meat)

Nelson <continues yelling on elite>: Cow meat does nothing for you fools, you are all stupid.

Mods and most members: What the hell are you talking about? We all grew eating cow.

Some kid from unestablished country with 2posts: In my country we eat cat, and I grow big.

Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: You people are stupid, you eat something and you don't know why it is working.

Nelson <replying to the mods and members>: Continues to compliment the foreign kid for eating cat, and then goes on to say that he didn't mean cow meat does NOTHING only that it isn't as good as cat.

<Mods and members get angry>

Nelson: I have 1000s of published articles and I have worked with athletes and fat housewives with kids.

Nelson: (somehow manages to insult the people that disagreed with him)

Members: (insult back)

Foreign kid: I love Nelson.

Nelson to foreign kid: I love you too.

<Thread Locked!>

----

-sk

That's funny! Now allow me to give my version.

Nelson: Don't do aerobics.

EF member: What do you mean? That goes against everything I heard. You're a moron.

Two months later.

EF member. Hey, you know...since I stopped doing aerobics my muscle are fuller, my strength is up and I haven't put on any fat.
Nelson: When you eat has almost no bearing on how you look.

EF member. Everybody knows that nutrient timing is the most important aspect of bodybuilding. You're just being controversial.

Two months later.

EF member I went on vaction and couldn't follow my nutrient timing at all. It made no difference. I say to everyone that timing isn't that important.

Other EF members. You may be right. Karma to you.

Nelson: Short cycles are the way to go because they're less suppressive and you can not hold on to massive gains anyway.

EF member: You're an idiot. I gained 180 pounds on my first cycle and kept it.

Two months later.

EF member. I'm 25 aand my T level is 62. How do I go about getting HRT?

Nelson: Clomid blows.

EF member: Every study in the world disagrees with you.

Two months later.

EF member: I've been on 100 mgs of Clomid for a month, I still have no dick, and I want my mommy!

Nelson: Do my calve routine and you'll only need to train calves 4 minuts a week.

EF member: LOL! Yeah, I can imagine Ron Coleman training calves only 4 minutes a week. What a tool!

Two months later.

EF member. I did this calve routine I saw posted on another message board and I can hardly walk. Kudos to the guy who cut and pasted it.

Nelson: Using avena sativa will raise free testosterone.

EF member. Sure, supps suck. You said it yourself, now you're changing your mind.

Two months later.

Hey, I tried avena sativa and I have wicked morning wood for the first time in years. Has anyone else heard of this?!

Nelson: You can get it at PF.com

EF member. Spammer!!!

Nelson: If you use DNP you're a fool.

EF Mod. You haven't the slightest bit of knowledge about chemstry. You're a joke. Go home.

Two months later.

EF: I'd like to send out special condolances to a fallen bro. ******, a Mod here at Elite Fitness has died of a sudden heart attack. It was not related to drugs though.






And so it goes.

 

[Spidey]

What you have stated in this post goes against what has been established and written in a myriad of textbooks and journals.

You CANNOT present an idea contrary to well established science and expect us to gobble it up WITHOUT some reference that supports your statement. (Well, you CAN expect some of us to.)


You do not have to list every source that agrees with you - that's silly. HOWEVER, why will you not list a few? Give us two reputable internet sites, two books, and two journals that support your statements.

Two??? I would settle for just one!

 

[DJ_UFO]

I'd like to know where are the studies that proves the first post of this thread. If exists any study, is important to write it down at the end of the post. If no studies exists at all that prove this theory, well, it is just an opinion and not a fact. And that means that I have the right to say that the theory is wrong. And I don't have any backup study to prove that is wrong.

Now we can experiment based on the ADVICE of Mr. Montana by adding fat to the protein shakes. We MAY have better results.

my 0.02

 

[thx9000]

That's funny! Now allow me to give my version.

How well do you expect your ideas to be accepted when they start with:

Every day I hear about guys doing something that is dead wrong and it's time that it was addressed.

And then the argument changes from:

if you're mixing whey or egg white protein in water, you might as well flush it down the toilet..

To:

I should have been more specific and said protein is "far less likely to be fully absorbed without fat and much more likely to be converted to glucose".

You set yourself up as an authority and not too many people like to accept an argument based on authority especially when it begins with an insult....but, hey it sure get's them to read your posts...

 

[satchboogie]

Okay, you got me. I just signed a major contract with the milk company and promised to get them more business by going on EF and telling people to drink milk. That'll do it.
I swear, some of the accusations are just moronic.

Then of course you have the flamers...um, I mean the mods who love to dismiss what I say while providing heaping mounds of evidence to the contrary. No, wait a minute. They provided no evidence, did they? They're mods. Just believe what they say.

And finally, lets not forget those that get really peeved at posts that get thousands of view and dozens of replies. All that interest is really a bother isn't it? Maybe he's right. From now on, lets stick to issues like which testosterone is best and if it's okay to drink winny.

good points nelson..

but what do you have to say to mavy's post?
page 4.

 

[onerepmaximum]

Mr Montana,
I see it like this, you must earn respect, you can't demand it. When you try to demand it, you lose it. I know that I come to these boards to learn. I suspect a lot of us here do. It's not like we are predisposed to doubt every idea that someone presents. As you can see, I haven't been a member of the boards for very long. I started posting just about the time that it came to light that you created an alias on a discussion board to sing your praises because no one else was giving you the respect that you demanded. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, you told everyone why you did it and what not. If they bought it fine, if not, that's fine too. But maybe you can see why everyone doesn't form a school circle around you every time you clear your throat. Why not at least try to support your opinions instead of just saying, "Because I said so!" Personally, I have a pretty open mind about trying things out. It is unfortunate that you took such exception to requests for you to support your views. This thread would probably be 2 pages long if you had. Perhaps you think you are above scrutiny.

 

[doubles1]

crazy as post just spend 20 minutes reading every page....Sk funny shit..nelly nice reply...and let the debate rage....i have alwyas taken my pro with water....and have seen gains....i cant do milk and dont wanna ...im thinkin of takin my omega threes iwth protein but they're only 10 cals of fat a serving...



dubtz.

 

[Fukkenshredded]

I think the confusion comes from the fact that a statement about protein utilization cannot be made without first commenting on the metabolic state of the body.

In general, the metabolic state does not depend primarily on the actual meal being eaten at any specific instant, and so in light of that fact we can see that the simultanaety of macronutrient consumption is not the predominant factor determining the use of those macronutrients.

After all, the body only performs either glycolosis ir gluconeogenesis--not both at the same time.

Glycolysis & Gluconeogenesis pathways are both spontaneous. If both pathways were simultaneously active within a cell it would constitute a "futile cycle" that would waste energy.

Overall, each pathway may be summarized as follows (ignoring water & protons):

Glycolysis:
glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi à 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP

Gluconeogenesis:
2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP à glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi

Glycolysis yields 2 ~P bonds of ATP.

Gluconeogenesis expends 6 ~P bonds of ATP and GTP.

A futile cycle consisting of both pathways would waste 4 ~P bonds per cycle.

To prevent this waste, Glycolysis and Gluconeogenesis pathways are reciprocally regulated.


Local Control includes reciprocal allosteric regulation by adenine nucleotides. This insures that when cellular ATP is high (AMP would then be low), glucose is not degraded to make ATP. It is more useful to the cell under such conditions to store glucose as glycogen.


Phosphofructokinase (Glycolysis) is inhibited by ATP and stimulated by AMP.

Fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase (Gluconeogenesis) is inhibited by AMP.

Global Control in liver cells includes reciprocal effects of a cyclic AMP cascade, triggered by the hormone glucagon when blood glucose is low. Phosphorylation of enzymes in liver by cAMP-Dependent Protein Kinase results in inhibition of glycolysis and stimulation of gluconeogenesis, making glucose available for release to the blood.

We can therefore deduce that a state of starvation is more likely to induce gluconeogenesis.

It is not simply a matter of limited carbs, as the presence of ATP is a primary factor as well.

Thoughts, Nelson?

 

[kingsbury]

good point THX9000

Good point THX9000....are you a Communications professor? arguing from authority is a bad way to go about things....I think I remember learning about that in a communications class. Nelson's point would be more effective if he would start off less aggressively, perhaps asking a question and then stating his point...