Strength/Hypertrophy training questions (Mods, could use your input please)

[Slyder190]

I recieved Charles Poliquin's book, "Modern Trends In Strength Training". Very interesting reading. There's a chapter on sets, but it does not give a given overall set range, which I feel makes everything else almost obsolete in a way. Kind of like having all the parts to a model car and no directions on how to put it togther. There is no mention of exercises such as side dubell raises or shrugs, to name a few. Not really strength type lifts such as squats or dead lifts, but where such execises and angles fit in though? The qusetions I am looking for answers really are related to constant improvement in size over time. Yes we all hit a limit. But some can acquire 18' arms while others only 16' for example. The book mentions that after 6 weeks the body adapts and a new method of training is needed to keep improvements coming and to keep the bosy from "sticking" at a certain level. He says that reps from 1-5 are geared towardsd strength as where 6-12 are more suitable for hypertrophy. Something I did already know as do many of us. He gives many variations of strength routines. How do you big guys change your workouts in order to keep growing (aside from using gear)? There has got to be more than changing the exercises, I've done it for years and that aint no special trick, at least not for me. There must be more to it. Many factors must change I assume. Rest time, sets reps, advances techniques, etc... It seems there's a layout for constantly changing strength routines, what would be possible layouts for hypertrophy routines? Strenght and size do have a correaltion at different levels. Do you big guys switch to strength rouitnes with low reps, or differing tempos, such as 4021? I will try to apply methods in the book for a change up and to attempt to gain some more strength which I can hopefully apply to attaining more size. Just curiuos if strength rouitnes are used by many of the bigger guys at different times and curious as to how youkeep from getting "stuck" for extended periods of time. Also where do such exercises such as front dumbell raises fit in to certain routines. I must also mention, dropping or adding weights by 4% or 5% at gyms where atheltes are specially trained, but at the average gym, it isn't always quite so simple. Like for example, when a routine is given that tells you to do squats immediately followed by leg extantions for a super set. A, it ties up 2 machines and, B, at my gym I'd have to squat, run upststairs and then go back down again to repeat the set. Simple things many writers of such books overlook. And no, I don't spend my life trying every type of routine, but I do read a lot to try and learn and I notice such stupid shit.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

The key is constant CHANGE,both in rep,set,and excercise choices.I switch back and forth from standard BB routines to power-orientated regimens,where compound movements make up the vast majority of my routine.Drop sets are also a terrific addition for hypertrophy,as you are reaching failure and driving beyond it multiple times within a single set.
Over the years,one of my favorite strength-based habits has been working PARTIALS within a power rack.Let me give you an example of how this has worked for me: Many years ago,I was trying to break a 500lb plateau in the squat.I could unrack it,and drop down a few inches,but once I got anywhere remotely close to parellel,my thighs would just collapse.So I started setting the pins in the power rack at about lower pec-level,and started seeing how many 1/4 reps I could bang out with this weight.Surprisingly enough,the power of your limbs at close to the extension point is remarkable.I was able to rep out quite easily.So what I did was begin regimenting this into every squat workout for a few months,and before I knew it,I was doing 1/4 reps with 550,575,600lbs,and beyond.Then,VERY SLOWLY,I started moving the spotting pins downward by a hole at a time every or every other workout,but still trying to maintain current weights and reps(this was not always possible,sometimes I would have to back off by 20-30 lbs,or sometimes I would reach failure a little earlier because of the increased range of motion),but what I started noticing,is that if the first couple of sets done in my routine were for 1/4 reps at extremely high poundages,that once I dropped the weight down by a plate or two,it felt so much lighter that I could now do parellels with a weight that was once untouchable for me.That year I shattered my 500lb goal and hit a 585 parellel squat.This same sort of partial regimen works quite well for bench press and deadlift movements as well.Worth experimenting with.

 

[Elapid]

The routines Huck just outlined are the way my old training mate helped me bring my poundages up and build a really solid core strenght foundation, which I think is essential for real BB progress. The intended purpose of those power-racks you see guys using to do bicep curls is for this very thing: training with weights heavier than you max at limited ranges of motion.

Encorporating powerlifting movements is what I think seperates the men from the boys, like deads, powercleans, lots of whole body movements with adequate rest according to your body's needs.

Think changing routines on the macro-level not the micro-level, in other words try switching from bb to power lifting to a combination of both every month or so.

Also eat more and you will grow more, its that simple whether your on gear or not.

 

[gunslinger11]

BUMP

 

[Zyglamail]

There are so many schools of thought on this, but as Huck mentioned, change is required. One of the things I have found most experienced strength athletes can agree on is cycleing intensity (ie 2 steps forward one step back). As an example, let me just grab the bench and a current exercise weight of 300lbs. Lets assume your stuck and have been for some time. Cycle back intensity by sticking with the same rep scheme but dropping lets say 40 lbs (ie to 260) at your next workout. Then for each following workout add 10lbs until you get back to your previous 300lb mark. Then the following workout add 10lbs to that. Then drop weight by 40lbs again from your new high (ie 270lbs) and start the intensity cycle over again this time going to 320lbs. Obviously this is just an example and the jump in poundages may have to be adjusted as well as the duration of the intensity cycle.

Additionally keep in mind that even an elite strength trained athlete is only capable of using about 50% of their available muscle fora given exercise. This type of strength comes from CNS stimulation by using heavy weights and low reps. However logic would indicate that if you can only hope to recruite 50% of your muclse that sooner or later, to continue getting stronger you are not only going to have to train for strength but train for adding size as well.

Many strength athletes believe that 5 reps should never be exceeded, even when trying to gain mass. The only thing that is changed is duration between sets. Normally when going for strength 5 reps is the max. At 5 reps your likely working with about 90% of your 1 rep max and have long rest periods between sets (ie 3-5 minutes). Some strength trainers, like Pavel Tsatsouline, recommend the standard couple sets of 90% 1 rep max, long rest for strength followed by more sets of 5 reps at 80% 1rm, however only taking short 30-90 second rests between sets and performing these sets until you cant get 5 reps. Thats the point at which you are done with that exercise.

 

[Slyder190]

Bump

Great input guys, thank you. However, what of "smaller" exercises, where do they get incorperated? Charles mentions that higher reps would require less sets overall and heavy multiple set training is key for strength gains. I had always thought it to be vice versa. He also mentions such techniques such as rest-pause, but I would never think to use such a style for bi's or tri's or traps. I don't really challenge whaty he is says, as he is the one with the master's degree and years of experience with thousands of athletes, but I don't take every word as gold. For example he states that each muscle be worked once every 5 days and that back and chest be done together. Something I would never do honestly. Bottom line is I wanna keep growing.

 

[me2dammit]

yeah

ol zyglamail broke it down.

Nothing like the density you will get doing reps of 5 with 30-60 seconds of rest. You just don't build big "virtual muscle" you build big AND strong muscle.

 

[Slyder190]

Sooooo....

What you're sayin Zyg is 5 reps at 80% of 1RM even if the first few sets you could keep goin and do more than 5, but you don't, correct? Kind of like 10 sets of 10?

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: Sooooo....

What you're sayin Zyg is 5 reps at 80% of 1RM even if the first few sets you could keep goin and do more than 5, but you don't, correct? Kind of like 10 sets of 10?

Correct, always stop at 5 even if you can get more. For the first couple sets you will likely be able to go past 5 reps but if you try it you will see that not long after the first couple, especially if only resting 30 seconds, they will catch up to you very fast. I find that for most compound exercises I can only get 4-6 sets (after the initial 2 at 90%) with a 30 second rest. Once you find that you cant get 5 reps then your done with that exercise.

 

[Slyder190]

Zyg-

So how do you figure out set scheme? Before I was doing 10 sets for quads and and bi's and tri's. 12 for back, 9 for chest and so on...Do I keep it within the same range or not or will it depend on whatever type of strength routine I may be using at a given time? Thanks Zyg.