Squatting for Quads?

[Tarheel]

Ok, I understand where you're coming from.

Sometimes I've found while olympic squatting that I not only am pushing thru my heels, but the weight is so far back that I have lost my balance and fallen backwards. Here is an example where elevated the heels will aid your stability. Not really a problem for parallel squatting though.

I'd like to remind some readers who may not know this that elevating the heels *may* make it possible to squat deeper, which will increase hamstring recruitment and saftey. If you lack the flexibility to squat ATF, then raising the heels my allow you to, either by using an olympic lifting shoe with elevated heels or by placing your heels on a board or plate. Most people I know roll backwards when they try to olympic squat.

 

[endpoint]

Endpoint, why do you belive ine a narrow, vertical squat?

because its my new religion!

I feel its better for overall leg strength, front to back, for my oly lifts.

for other people....knee strength and stabilty.

keep in mind i avocate good delopment for hamstrings, i think they play a very large role in knee health and sports specifity......even more than quads, but that doesnt mean that quads should be forgoten about

 

[spatts]

Tarheel, oly shoes that are built to raise the heel, I understand. That helps with balance for those who need it. Personally, I can go ATF in a 48" stance with an overhead squat, no problem. I understand that not everyone has alot of hip flexibility. I really feel that shoes with an even taper from back to front are safer than plates. The center of your foot, when standing on a plate, has ZERO support. Also the shoes are maybe a 1/2 inch of help, whereas I occassionally see people standing on quarters or other plates that are much higher....even less support to the center of the foot.

To me, this balance issue has more to do with keeping the bar over the hips than whether or not you are using more hamstring or quad.

Endpoint, I do my front squats ATF, but my shins are still vertical. I suppose this is just a flexibility thing too? They hit my abs and quads SO hard.

 

[Tarheel]

Wow!, most impressive!

Right now I cant even break parallel with a 36" inside to inside foot spacing, I use about 12" when I go ATF....

 

[coolcolj]

A narrow/med (shoulder width) stance squat has greater ROM - just like a close grip bench or pullup does

Which is what you want when the squat is a means to and end, rather than an end in itself

Obviously the bar has to be always above your heels, so as you move your hips forward/back, your back angle changes to keep the bar in the right place. So hips forward, more knee bend, upright torso. Hips back, less knee bend, more forward lean.
Now if you widen your stance you reduce this effect, since now the hip and knees are both closer to the centre of gravity.

For what it's worth I used to squat hips back - really far, back, I had problems staying balanced, in fact my toes were in the air, and this causes me to lean more foward to keep the bar over the heels (centre of gravity). I had in fact fallen backward several times because your right on the edge of stability.
My quads never grew until I switched to my curent Oly style form, now I get even quad/hip/ham developement, whereas before it was mainly glutes and a bit of ham.

 

[endpoint]

To me, this balance issue has more to do with keeping the bar over the hips than whether or not you are using more hamstring or quad.

Endpoint, I do my front squats ATF, but my shins are still vertical. I suppose this is just a flexibility thing too? They hit my abs and quads SO hard.

yes flexibilty.....and great strength to hold the correct position.
maybe limb length and all that other stuff (which we didnt mention in previous discussions)too

I feel like i have done a 1000 sit ups the day after front squats

 

[SeymourCuts]

Due to structural differences, not everyone can pull off every stance and style of Squat while maintaining their balance and a straight back. Structure will also determine load biases in different stances. For me, I don't get significantly more stress in my quads and about the same amount of stress in my glutes when doing Front Squats as Olympic style Back Squats. If I wanted to significantly increase quad stress, I would pre-exhaust with Leg Extensions as they are the least stressful means for the CNS, and I would forego any sort of plates under the heels as they can cause excess shearing forces on the knees and foot arches.

 

[blinddeafmute]

I have learned a lot from this thread. Very good topic.

I have some questions though.

I have had a hard time keeping my balance doing squats. I cant seem to keep my back straight, knees behind toes, and balance all at the same time. I feel like I am bening forward way too much when I do them. I have been doing box squats to help keep myself back. I do feel like I have to lean forward to get up off of the box though. I might not be leaning forward as much as it feels like. Does this sound normal? I am going to try to get a digital camera and take shots to post sometime, as this has always been a concern of mine.

Another thing that has been stirring in my mind the past couple of days. I am doing DC training and noticed that I DO feel my squats more in my hams than I do in my quads. Originally when I set up my routine, I would do squats and ham curls in the same workout and nothing else for quads. Everything I had read (like on exrx.net) said that squats targeted the quads and that hams were either a synergist, or stablizer. I havent felt like my quads get hit very hard from squats now. Should I switch out the ham curls for leg extensions or sissy squats or something, or should I maybe just add a quad exercise to my existing routine. Remember that DC is only suposed to be 1 workset per muscle group.

I do seem to feel a major hit in my quads when I do deads. Are they the same way as squats? Should I be feeling them more in my hams and ass? Deads seem to hit all my muscle groups the same, all the way up to the back of my neck.

 

[spatts]

Issue 1: Could be core and hip strength, would need to see a vid.

Issue 2: Squats are compound. Your quads are gonna get hit either way. Some people are just looking for that extra burn in the quad. I think properly done narrow ATF squats or front squats are great for that.

Issue 3: Feeling deads in the quads is news to me, but they do get worked, so I don't see why not. Stance will effect this as well.

 

[blinddeafmute]

Maybe its just because deads are a new exercise for me. I have only done them a couple of times.

I stand with my feet at about shoulder width when doing them, not very wide at all.

I do have a very week core. I would have to say that it is my worst area. I have a dull ache in my lower back all of the time that wont go away too. Im about ready to go to a chiropractor for it.

Should I stick with a lower weight on squats until my core gets stronger? I dont seem to have much of a problem with deads.

I am stick thin and 6'3" tall. That probably has a lot to do with it.