squats but no soreness in quads

[louden_swain]

The short of it: No.

Your answer is invalid because you have no justification on why my statement is wrong.

 

[casualbb]

There's so much wrong with the pile of claims you made that my guess would be Baoh didn't think it worth the effort to wade through all of it.

But since you want to argue, I'll try and make this quick.

Thats because the 5 x 5 program does not go to failure. The DC program will ensure that you hit each and every type of muscle fiber.

Fiber recruitment has little to do with failure. At around 85% of one's max for an exercise, the body has recruited the maximum number of fibers that it can. Up to that point, to lift a bigger load it generally recruits more fibers. High loads recruit both fast AND slow-twitch fibers (generally), and low loads recuit mostly low.

Although many say soreness is not an indicator of growth, I use it a a gauge to tell me whether or not I had an intense workout. Needless to say, on this type of program I can barely move the next day. Its all about high intensity, and I think the 5 x 5 program fails to test your absolute true strength. . .it likes to stop you at a fixed rep. . .why go for 5 when you can really get 7 or 8?

Anyway, soreness is based on lactic acid buildup and microtears in the muscle.

It's really not about high intensity. What is intensity anyway? The traditional definition is % of 1RM. If you're talking about "intensity" as perceived effort, well yeah it feels hard because you're riding the edge of failure for sets, holds, and negatives. But tension is the cause of growth, not fatigue. The 5x5 program has dissociated the tension from the fatigue, and I respect it.

As to soreness...from the HST FAQ:

Getting sore from training is like sweating from training. It often accompanies training but can't effectively be used as a measure of the effectiveness of the workout. They are related, but not "correlated".

This does not stop people from using DOMS as their measure of the effectiveness of the workout. This is not a bad thing! Nor is looking for sweat a bad thing to do when trying to tell if you're working hard enough.

The problem comes when people change their workouts inappropriately based on signs of soreness. An effective workout doesn't necessarily lead to soreness.

-casualbb

 

[jerkbox]

ok......doing one set ala DC training works


doing a 5x5 type routine also works

which works better? don't know....

they will certainly both make you grow,

to me, DC training makes a lot of sense....you push your muscles to their utter limits in one set, allowing your muscle to be traumatized in an intense manner, but not damaging the tissue so much that you can't train that muscle again for 7 or more days.....instead, you are able to push that muscle to it's limits more times per year, hence in theory better gains.

I'm attempting to test the theory in my own training.

if you are a scrawny little shit, doing either will probably make you grow as long as you eat and recover right....do what works for you...and judge your gains relative to your former self.

how do you know it's working? you grow and get stronger.

 

[c3ntrifug3]

hmmm

To get back to the original subject of this thread (and I apologize if this is a innane/unnecessary post) but it's rather hard to do squats to failure effectively and generally not reccomended

You can't use any methods to push yourself past failure on squats, also... at least safely.

 

[casualbb]

Right! Well, don't worry about not being sore in your quads, that doesn't mean they're not growing.

-casualbb

 

[JOKER47]

I'm not taking one side or the other here, but someone might want to define "Failure".

For me, failure is repping to the point where I know that I cannot perform one more rep. Not to the point of where I need a spotter to help with the last rep.

Before this discussion goes on much further, understanding each persons definition of failure might help clarify the answer to the question.

.02,
Joker

Oh, and just for the hell of it, I use soreness as an indicator of whether or not I hit the targeted muscle group dur ing the training session.

Just .02 more

 

[collegiateLifter]

gotta make distinction between recruitment and fatigue.

Any way after 5x5 on squats, follow it up with 2x10 on hack squats ala need size. Then do quad stretches immediately after last set. Got me some big leg growth last semester

 

[Baoh]

Actually, if I read the mags and listened to the lazy know-it-alls in the gym, I'd be doing 20 sub-maximal sets per bodypart but not breaking a sweat........I'd rather just do what works best, busting my ass on every set and hoping I feel so damn sore the next day I can hadly move.

It's a good thing you don't do that as well, but the idea of failure being related to growth is BS. This has been shown time and time again in the training halls of other nations, in many PLers of this nation (the US), and in the exercise science laboratories.

Also, think of it in an evolutionary sense. In a state of nature, which is where most of our bodily responses are derived from, failure would mean death. If growth depended upon failure, no one would be able to adapt to physical weakness for a major task, as the animal you were fighting would kill you, the man who you were fighting for territory and food would kill you, and the rock or log you were trying to move would damage you. Even if you were only injured, you'd be highly succeptible to predation.

In the lab, in the training halls, in the barbell clubs, and in nature- failure is not necessary, best, or anything beyond a drain (combined with a mental feeling of accomplishment).

 

[Baoh]

There's so much wrong with the pile of claims you made that my guess would be Baoh didn't think it worth the effort to wade through all of it.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[bigstve12]

Collegiate...ive been following squats w/ 2X10 leg press, burns like a bitch when doing it, still no soreness.
Anyways. im not jumping into this failure controversy, I just lift until the pain is so intense i cant stand it anymore....so i guess this would be failure? All in all its worked good for me. Ive gone from 135lbs (yeah its embarrasing) to my current weight of 200lbs in 4-5years of training...all natural. So it works for me