Smith Machine Deadlifts- Who Does Them?

[Citruscide]

One should never have to go further down than the floor. That's where the deadlift starts.

You aren't talking about the same deadlifts we are.

Deadlifts are deadlifts. I do mine on a platform so I can have a constant motion and not have my weights hit the floor all the time.

I never said they should go further down than the floor. I said that bar and weights on Sumo and deadlifts should start and end in the same place... sure, I know, wider stance, less motion... but the bar still has to go DOWN and UP.

I've seen some versions of the "Sumo" where people don't use the FULL range of motion... simply going down half-way... that doesn't cut it in my book.

C-ditty

 

[spatts]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but a sumo lift, as performed by a PLer does NOT go down and up...it goes up and maybe down. This sounds like I'm being nit-picky, but it's actually a HUGE difference in concentric:eccentric strength ratio, core stability and recruitment requirements, and most of all SAFETY. That's what we're talking about, right? Your deadlift starts at the top and requires reversal strength. It's likely an RDL if you're starting up top and dropping below floor level on a platform. We never start up and go down, though. Maybe that's why you think they're more dangerous than I do. Rightfully so.

Deadlifts ARE deadifts. That's not a deadlift.

http://www.olympus.net/personal/cablebar/RL.htm

You will notice in this article on how to perform Romanian Deadlifts that the first instruction reads: START IN THE COMPLETED DEADLIFT POSITION. In other words, "start in an upright position." Apparently the Romanians know it's backwards from a "deadlift" too.

What do you mean going down half way on a sumo? We don't even GO DOWN. We COME UP. I'm confused. That sounds like a wide stance front squat to me.

 

[Imnotdutch]

I think people are just misunderstanding each other here......almost a powerlifter vs bodybuilder thing.

To a powerlifter a deadlift is a very specific lift. You pull the bar from the floor until you are standing upright (there are details in there....but we wont dwell on them). If you do that you only need to lower the bar under control (ie: drop the bar whilst remember to keep your hands on it) to complete a lift. Hence Spatts's emphasis on pulling then lowering.

As a bodybuilder you would prob do multiple reps so the negative portion takes on more importance. There are people who don't touch the floor. Others lower slowly or quickly. Some even start from the top and do reps.

I think Citruside is also using a different definition of ROM. As a powerlifter, I mean the distance that the bar is moved. Citruside, are you talking about ROM in terms of the range the muscle is contracted over?

 

[Hannibal]

Deadlifts are deadlifts. I do mine on a platform so I can have a constant motion and not have my weights hit the floor all the time.

I never said they should go further down than the floor.

When you say on a platform...do you mean just your feet are elevated? Or are the plates and your feet at the same level?

That could also cause some confusion. When I think of platform deadlifts I think of elevated feet. Which in essence would mean that you are going further down than the floor.

 

[spatts]

I agree with you imnotdutch, of course, as I have stated this throughout the thread as well. I was under the impression that the topic centers around the safest method for building the erectors. When was the last time you saw a powerlifter with lagging erectors? How do you know that if you didn't do a traditional, by the book, deadlift you wouldn't get better, safer results? This isn't really BB vs PL...back in "the day" bodybuilders DID deadlift. There was no choosing between pretty and strong. They stuck to compound basics for density, and used accessory movements for hypertrophy...not TOO unlike WSB. The thread quickly turned to whether or not a deadlft is safe. How can one determine deadlifts to be unsafe if never performed?

As always, do what works for you. The only way to find out you could be doing it better, safer, more efficiently ANOTHER way, is to try it. Until you have, you don't know.

 

[bignate73]

IAs always, do what works for you. The only way to find out you could be doing it better, safer, more efficiently ANOTHER way, is to try it. Until you have, you don't know.

AMEN!

 

[Imnotdutch]

There is a whole world of difference between the typical back in the day bodybuilder and bodybuilders of today. I was referring to the latter. I think that removing the functionality part of bodybuilding was a big mistake.....but that is another story.

I totally agree about how to determine what is safe and what is not........its a shame that so many people are prepared to go through their lives accepting whatever is told to them.

I agree with you imnotdutch, of course, as I have stated this throughout the thread as well. I was under the impression that the topic centers around the safest method for building the erectors. When was the last time you saw a powerlifter with lagging erectors? How do you know that if you didn't do a traditional, by the book, deadlift you wouldn't get better, safer results? This isn't really BB vs PL...back in "the day" bodybuilders DID deadlift. There was no choosing between pretty and strong. They stuck to compound basics for density, and used accessory movements for hypertrophy...not TOO unlike WSB. The thread quickly turned to whether or not a deadlft is safe. How can one determine deadlifts to be unsafe if never performed?

As always, do what works for you. The only way to find out you could be doing it better, safer, more efficiently ANOTHER way, is to try it. Until you have, you don't know.

 

[Citruscide]

I think I am talking about a different range of motion that some people here are... as, there are several that exist. But, it's rather moot.

Imnotdutch said it correctly, I believe. I do my deads on a platform... the entire motion is controlled, lift and lower in a slow controlled motion. I feel it is a much greater exercise (at least FOR ME) when done that way... I could do the "traditional" deadLIFT and lift without lowering controlled, I could probably do 3x as much as I do now... but, I haven't had a need to do that much weight... either.

I do use the platform, but I don't lower the weights any lower than the platform... I do this because my deadlifts I don't stop at the ground... it would get rather annoying hitting the weight on the ground each time... it'd mess up my "controlled movement".

To each their own... At least everyone here is doing something right... I get sick of assclowns at my gym doing "deadlifts" and looking like they are doing shoulder shurgs.

C-ditty

 

[b fold the truth]

Ya know...there comes a time when you have to quit debating, quit arguing, quit complaining, quit comparing, and quit planning...and you have to actually step into the pit of death, wrap your hands around a piece of cold steel, and challenge gravity to a duel.

There is something very productive about something so simple...

B True

 

[Imnotdutch]

Ok but I am not in the gym right now so I cant challenge gravity.......I get to do that tomorrow. In the meantime I see no harm in discussing lifting with others (particularly as I am trying to avoid doing some work!).

Ya know...there comes a time when you have to quit debating, quit arguing, quit complaining, quit comparing, and quit planning...and you have to actually step into the pit of death, wrap your hands around a piece of cold steel, and challenge gravity to a duel.

There is something very productive about something so simple...

B True