Smith Machine Deadlifts- Who Does Them?

[Citruscide]

Why is it that a majority of bodybuilders are always looking for ways around exercises. They want to modify exercises so that they are safer. Why not just learn to lift correctly?

I've seen the range of motion that both Spatts uses as well as the Project on their deadlifts... and it isn't as great as mine, nor other body builders I know.

Like I said just above, even with PERFECT form, you can lose your balance, especially if you are on a deadlift platform. I had PERFECT form on squats, slow motions, damn near PERFECT... but because I slipped up on putting the weights on the rack, boom, back injury.

Maybe you guys can go through all of your workouts with out the slightest slip up.. I've been working out for 8 almost 9 years... the law of averages catches up to you after a while.

C-ditty

 

[Citruscide]

I can't think of a single good reason to do them on a smith. Lots of "published" routines aren't accurate.

Again. For bodybuilders where the shape (both physical and form) of their body is key and the necessity of strength isn't as key... Smith Machine deadlifts would offer a possible solution to doing free-form deads. The risk of injury is GREATLY reduced.. .as I discussed above, even with perfect form on free-form, you could slip and hurt yourself terribly due to the high weight and ineffectiveness of a spotter to catch you in case of a slip. With the Smith.. .you could avoid injury on a slip of form very easily.

Sure, you don't get the benefit of stabilizers, but hey, some people aren't in it for the strength of it... they care more about the looks.

With all that being said, I still do free-form deads.

C-ditty

 

[Texas Ranger]

Splatts, I seen Flex and Chris on tape do them while being trained by Charles Glass. I think they were doing 3-4 plates on each side, nothing major.

 

[spatts]

I can see how my sumo range of motion would be different...I use it specifically because it is shorter. For Project, I don't see how floor to lock out ROM is any different. He pulls conventional.

We also have to distinguish a definition of deadlifts apparently. We pull from the floor...DEAD...LIFT. We don't unrack anything. We don't start at the top, lower, lift. We pick up, then drop, reset, pick up again, drop, reset...etc. This can't be done on a "platform." We also have to take into consideration the purpose for the movement. We don't do RLDLs, SLDLs, keystones, etc...those are all variations designed to target certain muscle groups. A deadlift, as the weightlifting world knows it, is picking weight up off the floor and locking it out. Whatever you do to alter that to create hypertrophy is a different move, and shouldn't be considered more/less safe than a true deadlift. It's apples to oranges.

I was deadlifting 225 for 15 with a belt back in January when I felt a series of pops and hit the floor...numb from the chest down. Trainer rushed me to ER. Not PL/OL deadlifts, but pick it up off the floor, and hit the eccentric just about mid/calf deadlifts. I thought I was out of commission. Thankfully, learning AR techniques and switching to PL form helped me rehab this injury faster than I expected. Now I am lifting about 100 pounds more than that for reps, raw, with no problem (conventional and sumo).

Again, powerlifters pull 2-3x that kind of weight all the time with no problem. There's a difference in core strength. A powerlifter trains the core specifically to be able to handle this type of stress. BB's don't. For one, it makes your core THICK, and many BB's find this couterproductive to achieving a solid taper.

Poor form + weak back/core = injury. Like Hannibal said, some backs are pretty, some are strong.

Squats are very dangerous to rack, C, and I'm glad you came through it ok. We are getting a monolift soon for this reason. Again, there's a core training difference with PLers, in that a PLer will train partial valsalvas (walkouts) with bar weight as a Max Effort move for time, and also SEVERAL different variations of good mornigns just to prevent this type of injury. We call it chaos recovery. We always goodmorning the weight out of the rack, and goodmorning it back in. Not only does this allow for chaos recovery at lock out/rerack, but at the bottom. If you lose tightness in the erectors and traps at any point in the squat, you're asking for trouble. If you start to fall forward with 1000 pounds on your back, you better have the erectors to regroup and stabalize.

All moves have the potential to be dangerous, so anything we can do to make our own form/variations safer and more effective for our individual goals, the better.

 

[Citruscide]

Spatts

My point is, that the precarious position that deadlifts puts you in + the amount of weight involved = a greater chance of injury. Adding in the fact that a spotter isn't as effective in a deadlift than say, with bench press.

if you're doing 400lbs on bench, and 500 on dead... your spotter can save you on the bench.

I do use a platform on my deads, I feel I get a greater ROM on them... nothing touches the ground however.

Sumo deadlifts are supposed to have the same ROM as regular deads, at least from what I've read and learned in my training... the sole difference is hand placement in the bar... inner grip vs. outer.

Regardless... injury DOES pose itself in any exercise, even dumbbell flies. My entire explination was to explain the bodybuilders use of the smith machine rather than the conventional deadlifts. I've trained with several Mr. Illinois and a Mr. America... many of them will not do standard deadlifts because of the "stigma" of injury that surrounds them.

C-ditty

 

[spatts]

If I were a body builder, I do the safest thing possible to reach my goals.

If the weight doesn't start on the floor, it's a modified deadlift. The deadlift, by definition, means picking up dead weight...off the floor. Hence the name.

Powerlifting is a game of physics, C. It's about moving a weight through the shortest distance from point A to B...a straight line. Many PLers choose sumo because although the ROM is the same by definition (floor to lockout), the stance shortens the stroke. Common sense will tell you that if your feet are wider apart, you have less room between the bar and lockout because your body is closer to the floor. The difference between my sumo pull and my conventional pull is about 6 inches. The ROM is still floor to lockout, but the bar travels less distance. For very short people with really long arms, the floor to lockout distance of a sumo can look like it's just a few inches. I remember Amy Weisberger deadlifting 500 something in sumo, and because she was using a more flexible Okie Deadlift Bar, she bent the bar the few inches her short body takes to lock it out, and the weights didn't even come off the floor! LOL

 

[Citruscide]

If the weight doesn't start on the floor, it's a modified deadlift. The deadlift, by definition, means picking up dead weight...off the floor. Hence the name.

Deadlift, modified deadlift... doesn't matter what you call it, or where you pick it up from (pegs)... if it works, it works.

C-ditty

 

[spatts]

Exactly. I just consider some forms more "dangerous" than others.

Often it's not the deadlift that's the problem, it's putting it down. Many people don't have the eccentric strength to accomodate what they can pull. Prescription for disaster. A PL competition deadlift has no eccentric, so the deadlift is just that...a lift.

*This doesn't include speed deads or deads for glute/ham hypertrophy, just the 1RM.

 

[Hannibal]

if it works, it works.

C-ditty

Think the bottom line of all of it is...if it works for YOU, it works for YOU. Personally the Smith Machine is an evil piece of equipment. Having said that, my goals are different than many on this board.

Did I mention that Smith Machines are EVIL...IMO

 

[bignate73]

of all the talk about lifting near maximal weight or being injured trying to rack said weight. how much stabilizer work is done? do any of you do work with loads in anything other than the saggital plane? throw some transverse work in there, some rotation, some core stability work and chances are you will safeguard against the odd injury due to being slightly out of groove. transverse work puts you all out of the groove. this type of training doesnt have to the staple of your workouts but can work just as well as a prehab movement. dbell cleans for rotators=prehab. single leg romanian deads with a dbell or twisting lunges= comparable for trunk and ham glute complex.

just a thought.

ps...the smith machine for deadlifts....bad idea, thats taking a stable movement and making it even more stable. get strong with that one...and throw your back out picking up groceries.

my $0.02 anyways.