scapular position/ROM with benchpress

[xlifter]

This post is primarily for a therapist athletic trainer etc with some understanding of the shoulder complex I am just hoping that an avid lifter here may also have some background that may be helpful with these questions.

I have had myofascial pain of the low traps for about 6 years. Shortly after this pain developed I began having shoulder pain (likely RC impingement) with bench press. I eventually quit lifting because of this.
I have tried many times over the past six years to rehab this injury and resume serious lifting.

I still suffer from interscapular myofascial pain, but I have recently discovered that I can perform bench press if I make a supreme effort to fully retract and slightly depress my scapula while lowering the weight to my chest. As a matter of fact I feel like it is quite hard to bring the bar all the way to my chest with out fully retracting my scapula.

My theory of course is that inhibition of my low traps and possibly rhomboids secondary to pain impaired my mechanics (scapulohumeral rhythm) and caused the shoulder dysfunction. So I am interested in what degree does the average person retract (pinch together) there shoulder blades with bench press???

I was discussing this with a physical therapist at work that is a personal and athletic trainer. She informed me that there should be no movement of the shoulder blades with bench press because the bar should not come to the chest but rather the upper arms should only come parallel to the floor. She stated that scapular movement should not be substituted for glenohumeral movement to achieve full range. I find this concept strange for two reasons. First of all I have never heard of anyone else who thinks full range of motion with the bench press is not the bar to the chest. Also any therapist understands that scapular movement is required for correct mechanics of the shoulder complex with flexion of the shoulder. So I see no reason why scapular retraction should not be required for full horizontal abduction of the shoulder. Does anyone have an opinion on what full range of motion for the bench press should be with respect for proper body mechanics?


Xlifter

 

[Arioch]

I still suffer from interscapular myofascial pain, but I have recently discovered that I can perform bench press if I make a supreme effort to fully retract and slightly depress my scapula while lowering the weight to my chest. As a matter of fact I feel like it is quite hard to bring the bar all the way to my chest with out fully retracting my scapula

From this it sounds like you have a rotator cuff imbalance. Do you do much work for the external rotators?

So I am interested in what degree does the average person retract (pinch together) there shoulder blades with bench press???

Not nearly enough. See below.

She informed me that there should be no movement of the shoulder blades with bench press because the bar should not come to the chest but rather the upper arms should only come parallel to the floor. She stated that scapular movement should not be substituted for glenohumeral movement to achieve full range.

This is from the new 'Avoid any possible chance of injury, even though the individual in question is at more risk of injury when walking' school of thought. It is a theoretical concept that does not prove out in practice, although there are certain reasons for this. Once again, see below.

Does anyone have an opinion on what full range of motion for the bench press should be with respect for proper body mechanics?

Okay, she is right in her theories, but is failing miserably in terms of application. Yes, there is more risk to the shoulder joint when lowering the bar, but it lies more in the region of opening the acromial process. And this will depend on bar path. The lower one brings the bar, with the elbows tucked (as the clavicular head of the pec major functions in both horizontal flexion as well as adduction), which reduces the degree of horizontal flexion of the humerous.

The levator scapulae, traps 3 and 4, and the rhomboids, with the assistance of the external rotators, will assist in stabalization of the shoulder joint during horizontal flexion of the humerous, with the degree of assistance being proportional to the lifter's ability to achieve recruitment, although the amount of recruitment varies per individual. Using the musculature of the upper back, along with altered bar path, creates a far more synergistic kinetic chain than flat benching in the manner she described.

I see one of three things occuring in your situation:
1. Therapist is right out of school. Don't worry, either they get over the crusader phase or someone kills them.
2. Therapist is working for/directly trained by someone who avoided phase number one, and identifies all shoulder problems with a single factor theory.
3. Therapist is an idiot.

 

[ZZuluZ]

She probably just finished reading 'Weightlifting for Dummies'

-Zulu

 

[xlifter]

Arioch,

Thanks for the response. Some of your post may have been over my head. This actually surprises me because often I do not even receive answers to my questions (I think) because they are over many people’s heads. This is my first post to this board though so I may find that there are many very knowledgeable individuals here.

Right after I posted this here I read the bench press 101 post. It stated that the scapula should be retracted fully for bench press. I was glad to read that sense that is exactly what I have been trying to do.

You asked if I have worked my external rotators. I have not worked them lately but yes I have done every rotator cuff and scapular stabilization exercise known to man and regularly. They did not help

The only thing that has helped with my bench press is ignoring the pain in my traps and rhomboids and retracting my scapula fully prior to the decent of the bar.

I feel the problem is purely related to my scapular position caused by inhibition secondary to pain.
I strained my back doing deadlifts six years ago my upper back has hurt significantly ever sense. I still sleep on a heating pad. Shortly after the back pain set in I started having shoulder pain with bench press. As a mater of fact for some time I had shoulder pain even with out lifting weights.

I have tried everything to cure this pain. I have had X-rays and MRI’s. They show no damage. But I have palpable taught bands or triggerpoints. I am a therapist so I have tried myofascial release as well as all physical agent modalities (ultrasound E-stimulation etc). I have had trigger point injections with cortisone and lidocaine by several doctors. Of course they did not help because myofascial pain is not caused by inflammation, especially after 6 years. One of the doctors thought I might have torn my low trap.
I also tried triggerpoint injections with B complex and AS. That helped somewhat. Sometimes after rowing and stretching my low traps the tightness goes away and I feel fairly normal again but the pain and tightness sets back in with in an hour or two

So my theory is inhibition of low traps and rhomboids causes the shoulder problems. Actually, before I started focusing on retracting my scapula I don’t think they retracted at all with bench press. I had subconsciously learned to not recruit them at all secondary to the pain it caused.

Now if anyone has any idea what to do about the interscapular pain I am all ears.

Thanks for the help so far.

Xlifter

 

[powerlifterjay]

Well if i may. I know i dont know a lot of scientific shit!! But really i have had 2 big shouldr injuries. And to this day i must maintain them at the gym and at home, In order to lift good. This may not make it go away but it will help aleveate pain.

NUmber 1 ice that bitch every night. Take 4 ibuprohin every morning and take 4 more 1 hour before you train along with BC powder. This is me every day. Now as far as techniques goes, first off learn to get a slight arch. Not extreme but enough to get your mind into putting the bar low on your chest. This is proper form for powerlifting. If serious trainng to you is bodybuilding then do machines. BUt the bar should be below the nipple. Now do absolutly no pausing the bar. You are asking for trouble. Touch n go quickly. Make sure you have your elbows tucked in slightly. My inner arm literally drags down my torso wheni bench. And last push the bar in a straight line. Not back towards the face. Up your lat training so it helps you lower the bar in benching. Now i fthis style is hard to grasp off the bat. Do board presses instead and drop one board a week till you get to none. then repeat. Understand? I will assume you dont and expalin , if you do understand then i appoligise but i dont wanna leave out anything. use a 2x6 board. Nail them togther. This is also a huge tri power movemnet. We use up to 5 boards. But try starting with 3 make them about 18 inches long. Someone will hold it on yoru chest and then practice. I am no expert and i am not scientific. But i can bench over 600lbs at 235 and have had shoulder problems that would have some peopel throw n the towel. And i am feeling pretty good right now. So i speak not from books, but from 1st hand experience. Good luck bro!

 

[Twitched]

fp.jpg

Have you tried face pulls? Those are a big scapula retracting lower trap working thing....

this is how I do them.. put on one of those canvas tricep straps on the lat pulldown machine..(or a tricep rope will do). Stand, but put lean your knees up against the pad you normally sit on.. then lean back some..

With your knees up against the pad you can use more poundages..

 

[xlifter]

Thanks for the advice powerlifterjay and twitched.

Powerlifter jay.

Thanks for the advice on form and the board thing. I need to read that post "bench press 101" again I guess that will also help me with my form. I sure am impressed with your 600 bench. My best was 295 8 times. I think I was at about 165 (natural)at the time. I was hoping for a 400 pound bench one day but then all this crap happened about 6 years ago. I bench pressed for the first time in about five years about a month ago. I was only able to do 185 10 times, but I guess it is a start. I guess I shouldn't be giving so much info. All you huge guys must be laughing. I guess I wasn't really into powerlifting or bodybuilding just loved lifting weights. Although, I was getting ready to compete in a powerlifting contest shortly before I injured my back. It was just a small contest at the gym I worked out at in fort Riley Kansas

Twitched, thanks for the advice. I will try out the exercise.

Xlifter

 

[Deciever]

lol nice drawing twitch!!!

 

[goldenone]

Looks like they need to bulk up some Twitched!

 

[Twitched]

he's competing in the 3lb weight class .

good luck with your recovery xlifter!