Punch needs input from the Heavy Hitters RE/BENCH

[punch]

Hope everyone is doing well! Hope you can heA few months ago I started a bench program w/ my partner who was a former football player ( big guy ). His bench program is as follows.

Start w/ wieght you can handle for 5 reps and do this for 3 sets. Once you are able to complete this you go up 5lb a side your next workout and repeat the process. On your 4th set you take a wieght you could handle for 10 reps. Once this is accomplished you add 5lb a side on your next workout.

I was skeptical, but I tried it and it worked. I did.

I started at 275lb for 3 sets of 5 w/ 10 reps of 245lb on my 4th set
Currently stuck at 315 for 3 sets of 2 w 8 reps of 275lb on my 4th set. I maxed out 3 weeks ago and got 350 clean for 1 rep.

I have been stuck here 4 weeks and dont know what the best course of action is to go forward.

I do incline presses afterwards in the same fasion as flat and I am currently stuck at 255.
I then do flat flyes w/ wieght ranging from 55lb to the 80's for 6-8 rep

My current wieght is 195lb at about 9% bf. I have benn lifting for a long time ( I am 32 ) and want to get my bench to 315 for 8-10 w/ a 400-420lb max for 1 rep. Any ideas???

 

[p03t1c]

if your program works for you then you're going to have to figure it out. most of the guys here are westsiders which doesn't go along with your plan AT ALL. we're big on training the triceps, which we bench with rather than the chest, and tucking the elbows.

i would say switch routines, but if you like it then stick to it.

to find out more about westside routines check out http://www.elitefts.com

there is an assload of articles there to explain the methods. check out the testosterone section and read the benching articles. that might be a good start.

 

[punch]

As far as powerlifting goes, I am a firm believer that even though I look for definition and shape as a big component of my training, I do love the strength aspect. I train my triceps hard!

Close grip bench/ skull crushers/ pressdowns and kickbacks or overhead extensions. Are you saying I should try uping my tri routine to take my benching to the next level??

 

[benchmonster]

yes. that is what he is saying.

B.

 

[punch]

Does the current chest program I stated above make sense to any of you or should it be modified. Keep in mind I have stalled for some time know. As far as strength goes( powerlifting) ,when is it time to change your routine??

 

[benchmonster]

When is it time to change the routine?

Every week.

Go to elitefts.com and read all the benching articles. Many of the world's best benchers use this program. It changes up every single week. I have hit PR's every week for the last 13 months and have never burned out or stagnated and have put over 150 lbs on my bench in that time.

When you switch programs you usually have a little surge of new strength and growth, right? Well imagine every single workout being that way, cause the program and the exercises are constantly changing, and you have the westside/conjugate method right there.

B.

 

[natural-mike]

punchy...

I've done classic 5 x 5 routines very similar, my only advice to you is drop your other chest exercises for now and sub in tricep exercises, even though your not a Westsider. Weighted dips, close grip benches etc. Fly's for the chest are a joke, a damn laughing stock, in my opinion unless your a pro bodybuilder dont do them. In fact for doing fly's you should be exiled from this message board but oh well. Your routine should be Flat bench then triceps thats it for chest. The more chest movements you do the more you eat into recovery. Since your not into Westside I will not go into speed work. But speed is what you need.

One point you can take from Westside and Lou SImmons is after 6 weeks or so of just flat out benching all out like your doing, you will stall out and progress will cease. You may want to consider subbing in a new chest movement evey 3 weeks.

So I mean do your routine like you have been doing but for the first 3 weeks do it with flat then next 3 weeks move to incline and stop doing flat altogether, then 3 weeks later maybe move to weighted dips leaning forward for the chest then 3 weeks later rotate back to the flat bench again and begin cycle all over.

You have to rotate or your gains will stall, no matter what program you do or what your goals are, Lou Simmons was right, I have always halted progress when I didnt rotate power exercises or what we call ME exercises, some people here rotate each week.

Check the websites listed above by the guys, I actually cycle Powerlifting and Weight lifting together, I am not a pure powerlifter, nor a pure Westsider, btu I'd be f*cking damned if I was a tight ass bodybuilder, so puhh--leeeasee dont ever call me that.

Peace,
Mike

 

[punch]

Good advice Natural mike and Benchmonster!!!! I never thought I was doing too many excersises for chest. Maybe simply concentrating more on simple compound movements are key rather than shaping. I dont know if I could switch over to the Westside routine due to my schedule. Its hard for me to be constantly regular w/ my kids and work. Meaning that there maybe days when I am training in different gyms in different locations.

I have always respected the sport of Powerlifting. There is a n art to it and is somewhat difficult to transition over from more of a bodybuilding routine. This is going to be a major push for me. The only supps I take are protien, glutamine and creatine. Its been tempting to take some sauce to go the path of least resistance, but I always have and will continue to go natural, just my preference I guess.

I enjoy reading all of your threads, quite frankly they do more for me than anything else. Hope to hear more from you all. Cheers!!

 

[BODYSNATCHER]

Punch,
I've been weight training for about 30 years, the first 15 years bodybuilding, the last 15 powerlifting, more specifically- training for and competing in bench press competitions. As far as westside training goes, you don't "need" to do their routines in order to obtain a huge bench. They do some things that you can incorporate in your routine, without having to follow their routines to the letter. As far as extra tricep exercises being beneficial to your bench press - the answer is NO! If you start to add a lot of "skull crushers", Db extensions, and other bodybuilding tricep movements to your routine, it will more than likely result in OVERTRAINING. I do agree with some tricep assistance however - JUST 2 - CLOSE-GRIP BENCH PRESSES - Which should be cycled like your regular grip bench presses. And heavy tricep pushdowns - That are done once per week, about 72 hours after your regular bench day. Also, drop the inclines and flys, if you are specializing in the bench, they too add up to overtraining - and if you are doing overhead presses of any kind, on top of the benches, your shoulders are overtrained, as well as the triceps.

I also feel that you are doing too many reps and trying to add reps to the bench - where you might want to start adding weight, and only performing ONE REP. I was stuck doing routines of 5 - 3 - 2 reps, and never got past 400 pounds. It wasn't until I started doing multiple (3-5) sets of SINGLES that I was able to increase to over 500 lbs. (535) raw, and without any supplements of any kind, except for that cup of coffee prior to the workout. The only thing I did on bench day, is bench - and that's it. After warming up with 135x10, I single up 225x1, 315x1, 405x1, 455x1, 500x1, 500x1, 500x1, 500x1 - and that's it. I might drop weight occasionally and work on pauses for 3 sets of one after the top sets - but that's it. Every workout, try to go up 5 pounds - it's alot easier to concentrate on 1 rep, than it is doing 5 reps. You should practice form, explosion off the chest, speed, leg drive, and strong lockouts.

About 3 days later, I do Lats (close-grip pulldowns) for 4x10 with a moderate weight, then Close-grip benches (22" grip-or 10" narrower than you reg bench grip) for the same singles - workup to 3-5 sets. Then a bicep exercise (preacher barbell curls) for 4 sets of 8 reps, and heavy tricep pressdowns for 4 sets of 6-10 reps (adding wt. each set), seated db hammer curls for 3 sets of 12 reps and a finishing tricep exercise - overhead cable ext. for 3 sets of 12 - that's it. It doesn't take a lot of exercises - just intensity. The main tricep exercise is the close-grip bench - the other stuff is just "fluff" - (mainly because you can't handle enough weight in other exercises like "skull crushers" to help your bench increase, your tricep muscle might get bigger, but that doesn't mean your bench goes up) The close-grip is really the only one that helps your bench. Other things like rack-lockouts and 2,3,4,and 5 board presses can also be used (for singles) as a substitute exercise for the close-grip, for variety.

You can do legs in between the bench and back/closegrip/arm day - and do laterals for delts- but stay away from added "pressing" movements-they will cause overtraining (as you are "pressing" on bench day and closegrip day)

I think if you want to get your max bench up, get good at doing the single rep. And you will still get that "pump" after doing 4 sets of 1 with 90% of your max. It's the weight, not reps that make you strong.

I hope I helped. MK

 

[Liftbig]

i trained like that in high school for my freshman through junior years(i just graduated this year) and made 350 my sophomore year, thats when the shoulder problems and platuea started at the beggining of my senoir year i actually went down to 335 then i stumbled across elite fitness systems and started to train westside style, i even met some guys nearby who train at westside (they dont bench there becuase it save them a long drive they do sqaut there though) and thats when the fun started since i started training westside i have gone from a 335 bench to 500(with a shirt of course) in less then a year, my shoulder still bug me some but not as much as before and i guess since i keep getting stronger i will deal with whatever mild injury i still have. i just did the 500 bench this month at a meet @ 18 years old and drug free, so check this stuff out, it works!


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