Nelson is correct, BB bench is pointless and outdated.

[Silent Method]

Everyone is different and if you listen to alot of experienced bodybuilders and pros, they will tell you any workout should consits of 20-25 sets!!!!!

You are correct - everyone is different. This is why you must realize that a good many of us are not well suited, be it due to our current level of training or be it genetics, to such high volume.

I think it was Platz who made a comment regarding volume and how at his level of adaptation (very high) he felt he needed around 20 sets at a given intensity just to keep his legs at their particular stage of development. However, he said that to advise most anyone at a lower stage of development to use the same volume and intensity was absurd.

 

[Debaser]

Dogcraps comments are cutting edge -- for 1990. True, a muscle can only contract in one direction. In other words, there's no such thing as a "lower" bicep. But the chest is made up of hundreds of fastwitch muscle fibers and as anyone who has done an all "incline " or "decline" workout can attest from soreness the next day, you'll feel more on the top or bottom of their pecs respectively.

As far as more workouts creating more growth spurts, it's valid but arguable. I think that may work for a while, but everyone's recovery and growth ability is different.
I believe this technique is strictly for highly enhanced BB's.

First of all, DC recommends 3 chest sessions every 2 weeks (i.e. monday friday wed). Not 3 every one week. He would instantly claim "overtraining" as would any sane bodybuilder.

Everyone's recovery is different? Duh. That's why you space out your workouts optimally. For the average person it's the monday wed friday schedule. A VERY SMALL margin can do monday tueday thursday friday. And some people require less frequency.

I'm not sure what you mean by "growth ability." Some people grow faster than others, obviously, but that doesn't mean that the mechanisms for growth are changed. Generally, when you become the strongest bodybuilder you can be, you'll have become the largest you can be. Strength gains equate to size gains, assuming you're eating enough (2x BW protein, lots of good fats, etc)

As for DC's technique being for strictly enhanced BBs, that's bullshit! I have put on fucking 35 pounds in the last 5-6 months thanks to him. And most of the guys he trains are CLEAN, and making similar if not better gains. There's so many people that are essentially saying they wouldn't be huge if it weren't for him.

I have yet to see someone on this board say "I put on 10-20 pounds in 8 weeks thanks to Nelson Montana's training methods."

 

[Nelson Montana]

Cocerning the big claims those of you claim to have made...

There will always be certain individuals who respond better than others. And those individuals tend to be the type who can tolerate a lot of volume. It sounds great to say, so and so got big doing 25 sets but that doesn't mean everyone will react as well. Fuck, I bet there's guys on this board who've worked ever bit as hard as the pros and still look mediocre. Genetics. Genetics, Genetics.

35 pounds of muscle in 6 months with absolutely no juice? After being an advanced athlete and not progessing previously? Aren't you exagerating a little bit?

I've had hundreds of people write to me to say they've made progress with my methods when nothing else worked. If you're benching 225 for 50 reps, you may not need to hear what I have to say. But if you're benching 225 or 5 reps, it'll do you a lot of good.

Tom Platz is a perfect example. All through the 90's he talking about obliterating the muscles in order to grow. But how much did Tom grow from the age of 39 to 49? Not one bit. Tom is just insane.

The truth is, the older you get and the more established your muscle is, the LESS you need to train. Beating yourself up at that point is just silly. I'm all for occasional high volume workots but you can't live there every workout. Most people's adrenal systems simply can't handle it.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Cocerning the big claims those of you claim to have made...


The truth is, the older you get and the more established your muscle is, the LESS you need to train. Beating yourself up at that point is just silly. I'm all for occasional high volume workots but you can't live there every workout. Most people's adrenal systems simply can't handle it.

What happens if you overload your adrenal system? I think I used to do that. I feel better now doing a lot of sets with only 3-4 reps instead of maxing out on damned near every set.

 

[Silent Method]

Tom Platz is a perfect example. All through the 90's he talking about obliterating the muscles in order to grow. But how much did Tom grow from the age of 39 to 49? Not one bit. Tom is just insane.

First, I think we're on or near the same page as far as volume is concerned. That being said, you must realize that Tom has grown more muscle mass than any of us here probably ever will. Nobody could possibly know how much he's grown between the ages of 39 and 49 - he's only 47 - not that it matters much, as he hasn't been competing for some time. I know that he's been teaching full time for about ten years now. He is an advocate of "high volume," but as I said in my post, he admits that an extreme degree of high volume isn't for everybody, and is stupid for many.

 

[FreakMonster]

You feel you get stronger from week to week training this way? I couldn't make it to the gym 6 times a week if I wanted to..

It's not 6 times a week. I work out Tues., Wed., Fri, and Saturday, That's 4 times I work out a week. So if I do chest on Tues. I will do it again on Fri and then the next monday. So basically I'm working my chest 3 times a week.

Or if you don't recover fast you can workout out 3 times a week on Mon., Wed., Fri. Then you would be doing chest Monday, Fri, and then Monday again. So you would be doing chest 3 times in 8 days.

 

[sk*]

I like this thread, so I am gonna bump it. Bench hasn't done much for me so far, I am gonna change to dips and flys to see if my chest will improve.

-sk

 

[The_Eviscerator]

The truth is, the older you get and the more established your muscle is, the LESS you need to train. Beating yourself up at that point is just silly. I'm all for occasional high volume workots but you can't live there every workout. Most people's adrenal systems simply can't handle it.

I totally agree Nelson. When I was 22 it wasn't uncommon for me to do 20 sets per body part. Now I am 32 and I weigh 50 pounds more and 8-10 sets is more than sufficient for blasting a body part to hell. Of course, now I can reach maximum intensity a lot faster than when I was younger.

I think older trainees (not that I am ancient but 14 years of training under my belt) actually grow more from less work. I see guys beat the shit out of themselves with 3 hour work-outs and they look like hell.

 

[JOKER47]

No one ever said benching wouldn't work. It just doesn't work as well or as safely as other movements.

As far as benching being good for the stabilizers, that's nonsense. Stabilizers come into play when the body needs to be STABILIZED. That means the body must either be moving through space (i.e. Dips) or attempting to balance itself. (i.e. Incline DB presses). When your back is braced on a flat bench, there's virtually no stabilizer action. That's why benching blows out so many shoulders. You're forced into one position and the shoulders take the brunt of stress and eventual damage. Soner or later, it'll get you.

BB bench pressing with BAD form is unsafe. BB benching with GOOD form is a safe an any excercise out there.

This is not directed soley at you, Nelson. It's directed to everyone that is saying the same thing. You just happen to say it first, so I replied to your post.


Joker

 

[Big Nipper]

I never liked dips, always got too much delt and tricep.

Dips make my shoulders feel like they are going to pop out and tear. I get shoulder pains doing flat bench sometimes, and wrist pains as well. I have small weak bones, and sometimes I have to limit the weight according to my wrists, not my strength. Sucks.......