Ledhead Unleashed!

[muscleaddiction]

So am I !!! This is one thread that has been the most informative and educating of all of EF threads IMO. Let's keep this going Led buddy, miss our interactions!!!

MA

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[ledhead]

Controlling estrogen without an AI.​

Learn how to cycle correctly.

Start your doses low then up your doses after adaption occurs, which is “normally” about a month. I.e. Week 1-4 300 mgs Test, then after four weeks up it 300 mgs to 600 mgs a week for the duration. This will prevent your system from being overloaded with too much test, or other steroids that aromatize. When the body is overloaded with too much testosterone, or any other aromatizing steroids at one time it cannot utilize and absorb the hormone correctly and it will indeed aromatize into estrogen at a fast rate. The shutdown of normal testicular production of testosterone enables estrogen to saturate testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus in the brain therefore reducing the signal sent to the pituitary gland. This in return reduces the secretion of luteinizing hormone, which is necessary for the gonads to produce testosterone.
Over usage of testosterone increases estrogen production, which leads to estrogen to attach even stronger to the estrogen receptors.

Consequently, this is where you get the bloating and the gyno and the weird side effects that accompany with high estrogen levels.
By gradually increasing dosages the body will adjust to the hormone and utilize it accordingly via biological adaption and will utilize estrogen correctly, which we all know a little estrogen is needed to grow. Through my experiences this dosing strategy is the best way to keep a hormonal balance between both hormones and enable a person to avoid using AIs, which are counterproductive, which I will discuss later in the post.

Don’t cycle when body fat is too high.

Now, who determines when someone’s body fat is too high to cycle? Who really knows? Imo, a person should not cycle if their body fat is higher than 12%.

First, high endogenous estrogen levels in men come from high aromatase activity. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androstenedione and testosterone into estrone and estradiol. Aromatase is found most prevalently in fat cells, hence the more body fat a man has, the more aromatase hence the more estrogen. When a person who has a high levels of endogenous estrogen and adds an exogenous drug that aromatizes, that person is just going to raise his estrogen levels even more and more than likely just get fatter (increase fat cells).

Moreover, excess body fat, will likely cause a spike in estrogen and return lower testosterone levels. Consequently, you are worse off than when you began the cycle because you added fat and lowered your testosterone levels. I noticed this problem is prevalent on these boards. These are the two main reasons estrogen gets out-of-control. There are other factors that contribute to raising estrogen: poor diet, insulin sensitivity (eating too many carbs). I take slin so I have to eat carbs but I recommend you guys to get with RickRock about his carb manipulation tactics because I read some of his ideas and I liked what I read, hence he can help you with controlling estrogen in that manner.

Why AIs are counterproductive.

Using an aromatase inhibitor, estrogen levels still remain low, as we are actively preventing the body from doing what it's trying to do. That means the body will keep signaling for more estrogen while waiting for the testosterone levels to reduce. There's truth that aromatase inhibitors make the body want to produce MORE aromatase, since it's not seeing the estrogen production increase that it's looking for. There's also potential for ending up with too little estrogen. Both of these scenarios can result in a rebound type effect where once the aromatase inhibitor is stopped, the body stays in overdrive trying to make estrogen, which cause levels to spike (Pubmed).

In conclusion, try to dose correctly, don’t cycle when BF is high, eat clean, do cardio, and keep hydrated. This protocol should keep estrogen checked and enable one to avoid AIs, which are indeed counterproductive.

 

[ledhead]

Prolactin

Prolactin is a peptide hormone of 199 amino acids that is similar in structure to growth hormone. Prolactin is produced in the anterior pituitary in cells called lactotropes. Prolactin is secreted in an episodic fashion throughout the day. Its secretion is inhibited by dopamine and stimulated by estrogen, stress, TRH, and other factors such as suckling and nipple manipulation. Prolactin acts through prolactin receptors present on the surface of cells. In the human, these receptors are stimulated by GH and prolactin with equal potency. Prolactin initiates and maintains lactation in the estrogen primed breast. Prolactin is not a growth factor in breast tissue which is why it is necessary for breast tissue to be primed by the growth promoting action of estrogen in order for prolactin to exert its effects. Even so, lactation is prevented in the presence of high levels of estrogen and progesterone, such as those that exist in pregnancy, and lactation only proceeds with a drop in estrogen/progesterone levels post delivery. Prolactin inhibits gonadotropin secretion and therefore suppresses the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis and the production of testosterone (PubMed).

Progesterone

Progesterone is a steroid hormone that binds to intracellular progesterone receptors that act in the nucleus of cells. Progesterone is produced in males by the adrenal glands and males have the same plasma level of progesterone as women do during the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle. There are actually two progesterone receptors. A functional receptor and a nonfunctional receptor that acts to suppress the activity of the functional receptor. Progesterone antagonizes the effect of estrogen by reducing estrogen receptor levels. This is exemplified by the use of progestins to fight estrogen responsive breast cancer. Progesterone has a potent suppressive effect on gonadotropin secretion and has been used as a contraceptive agent in men (PubMed).

As you can see Prolactin and Progesterone are two entirely different hormones, which should not be confused with each other, and they are constantly being confused with one another on this board.

There is no evidence that controlling prolactin will prevent or treat gynecomastia. Many of the issues that are being attributed to prolactin can be explained through other mechanisms. While reducing prolactin may help with reduced libido and shutdown due to AAS, the potential risks involved with using dopaminergics to reduce prolactin levels probably outweighs the benefits. If estrogen is controlled during a cycle, then prolactin is unlikely to be elevated and unlikely to cause a problem.

Check estrogen and Prolactin will be checked

For the people who insist on automatically inserting dopamine agonists when running 19-Nors to control prolactin, think again because it is a real simple solution. Check estrogen and prolactin will be checked, it’s a biological certainty.

Dopamine agonists have entirely too many side effects that can be so easily avoided by just following the estrogen protocol.

Testosterone replacement-induced hyperprola... [Ann Clin Biochem. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Prolactin and Male Fertility: The Long and Short Feedback Regulation

 

[ledhead]

So am I !!! This is one thread that has been the most informative and educating of all of EF threads IMO. Let's keep this going Led buddy, miss our interactions!!!

MA

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

So you are . I kinda like this thread myself . Speaking of missing of interactions, I have a bomb to drop on you, that was dropped on me last week. I will text you tonight...

Glad you stopped by, brotha

 

[ledhead]

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on all of those. I am one of the fortunate ones that don't get estrogen sides with aromatizing compounds...at least so far. I know I can get by without an AI just fine, because I've done it enough times, but I usually throw an AI in at least mid-cycle to bring water retention down

I think the reasons why you don't need an AI most of the time is because you carb manipulate and you stay lean most of the time. I'm quite sure those are two main reasons..

 

[muscleaddiction]

So you are . I kinda like this thread myself . Speaking of missing of interactions, I have a bomb to drop on you, that was dropped on me last week. I will text you tonight...

Glad you stopped by, brotha

Hmmm...making me kind of nervous here, hit me up bro...need to catch up.

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[super-duty1]

Professor Led!!!!!

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[RickRock13]

I think the reasons why you don't need an AI most of the time is because you carb manipulate and you stay lean most of the time. I'm quite sure those are two main reasons..

As always, great information Led. After what you posted it does make a lot more sense why I have no issues not using an AI.

I also appreciate the mention about my carb manipulation in your information write up as well though I don't really consider it anything special..lol

 

[gjohnson5]

Absolutely massive

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[dylangemelli]

Don’t cycle when body fat is too high.

Now, who determines when someone’s body fat is too high to cycle? Who really knows? Imo, a person should not cycle if their body fat is higher than 12%.

First, high endogenous estrogen levels in men come from high aromatase activity. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androstenedione and testosterone into estrone and estradiol. Aromatase is found most prevalently in fat cells, hence the more body fat a man has, the more aromatase hence the more estrogen. When a person who has a high levels of endogenous estrogen and adds an exogenous drug that aromatizes, that person is just going to raise his estrogen levels even more and more than likely just get fatter (increase fat cells).

Moreover, excess body fat, will likely cause a spike in estrogen and return lower testosterone levels. Consequently, you are worse off than when you began the cycle because you added fat and lowered your testosterone levels. I noticed this problem is prevalent on these boards. These are the two main reasons estrogen gets out-of-control. There are other factors that contribute to raising estrogen: poor diet, insulin sensitivity (eating too many carbs). I take slin so I have to eat carbs but I recommend you guys to get with RickRock about his carb manipulation tactics because I read some of his ideas and I liked what I read, hence he can help you with controlling estrogen in that manner.

Rarely do I offer such praise, but my friend, you deserve it each time and more... The entire write up is significantly impressive but I want to focus and pin point on the quoted above... FINALLY, someone else with the proper knowledge devotes the time and FACTS to explain why taking steroids with excess body fat is such a bad concept... You brought up such excellent points, especially the concept of 12% body fat... Im sorry, but although 15% is not "fat", its not good either and anything over that is just ridiculous... There are VERY FEW exceptions that should use steroids at a body fat that high... I would say 95% at that percentage should steer clear... The exceptions would be power lifters, lineman, etc... Rare and abnormal circumstances... Not only is there the concern of high estrogen conversion, but chances are at that weight that blood pressure, cholesterol, amongst other things are of concern... ALSO, and VERY IMPORTANTLY, at that weight, its shows a complete lack of discipline with training and diet... It shows a half ass effort or half ass knowledge, both of which are extremely detrimental to overall health and success... It is evident that many at that weight are looking for a quick fix that will ultimately result in more problems... There are exceptions, especially people that have been dieting and coming down and for them, they are on the right track and do not fall into that category, but more often that not, it's someone looking for something in the wrong manner... This is a very serious problem, as you pointed out, and what that seems to be more prevalent each and every day... I am so happy that you posted this so that it can resonate to others out there and hopefully they comprehend what is being said and take action on it as opposed to being hard headed or lazy... To really enter this world, an understanding of what you are doing, a dedication to you health, a hard work ethic and a strong self intrinsic motivation need to be present to fully utilize what you are taking and doing... Excellent information bro... Thank you for presenting this to everyone and for being such a great member here...