Is cardio while cutting a waste?

[Matman]

I think the thing we tend to overlook is that our diet goes overlooked when we focus on sweating our ass of on a tredmill. I thinks it's valid to say that someone who is 14% bf and above could stand to do some cardio but when you are around 9% or 10% your pretty cut, granted your not show quality but when you take your shirt off your going to get some looks. It all depends on the person and there goals.

Again, I feel it's your diet that's a key factor when it comes to bf %, Iv learned this first hand.

 

[DaMan]

This is simple. I don't understand why there's a debate.

Original poster - you're lazy. Get your ass on the treadmill and JUST FUCKING FIND OUT IF IT BURNS FAT OR NOT!!!! For some people like myself cardio is absolutely necessary - I'm a classic endomorph and made it to about 10% (from ca. 20%) with perfect diet & lifting, but anything further won't happen for me without cardio.

Other people on this thread have different genetics/fat storage patterns/metabolisms that require them to do no cardio.

There is no single answer. Get off the couch and spend a few weeks adding cardio to your regimen but changing nothing else and find out for yourself.

 

[201mph]

i can't say if cardio is good or bad but i can tell you my own experience!

i'm 6'4" and 32. about two years ago i did 24 weeks of cardio and lifting without gear...i did 45 min. 3-4 times a week on the stairmaster...on a higher than average setting. after the 24th week i lost a total of 4 pounds...i don't know how much muscle i gained but i'm just an average guy at the gym. i will say that my pant size did not go down at all. it was frustrating and for ME think it was a waste of time. i would lift for an hour and then hit the stairmaster. when it was all said and done i weighed in at 220#...don't forget...with no gear.

with my first two cycles using a mild amount of test, i would lift four times a week, eat like crap and notice that my waist size went down while gaining size up top with no cardio. at one point on my first cycle, i was up to 238#.

on my last cycle i didn't get over 225#...i wasn't disciplined very well with the gear or working out...had some personal problems.

since then i've totally changed my diet but i wouldn't say it's ridiculous though. i just stay away from the sweets, eat at better times, eat less bread, eat more chicken and try to eat something every 2-3 hours...like a low-fat granola bar or no fat yogurt. when i started this diet i was about 215# and now i'm down to 195#!!! i haven't been under 200# since high school. i've gone from a 38 waist to 34 in jeans.

for ME, dieting really works if you stick with it...once you get use to it, it becomes a way of life. the cardio didn't do much for me and i won't do it with my next cycle...test/eq/winny/liquidex.

this is my experience and i'm not pro or con on the cardio debate...just my .02 cents worth.

 

[Vageta]

DaMan is correct. Everyone is different but he brings up my point. He is a classic endomorph and he was able to get down to 10% bodyfat without lifting. To me that is considered pretty damn lean, at least compared to the rest of the 99% of the population. When you want to get lower numbers you may have to do some cardio depending on your diet. This guy is an endomorph and represents a worst case scenario in terms of ease of fat loss. If you aren't an endomorph then you should be able to get much lower bodyfat that him without doing cardio.

The main problem I see here is people assume because THEY can't get lean without cardio they assume everyone else can't. If an endomorph can get to 10% with diet and weightlifting alone then just about anyone can unless they have an underlying medical problem.

Throw in an anabolic compound like Fina or Anavar and you most likely would be able to get all the way down to your goal without cardio. I'm assuming DaMan was doing this naturally.

 

[Dr.Equinstein]

I read somewhere..can't recall the source as of yet. However it stated that when doing cardio the fat/muscle burning ratio was 3/1..when anabolics were in use the ratio was bumped up to 8/1. Meaning for every 8 pounds of fat dropped a pound of muscle would be lost. Ofcourse this is not a given for every individual, alot of things would factor in on this, however an interesting study without a doubt.

 

[Yll]

This is simple. I don't understand why there's a debate.

Original poster - you're lazy. Get your ass on the treadmill and JUST FUCKING FIND OUT IF IT BURNS FAT OR NOT!!!! For some people like myself cardio is absolutely necessary - I'm a classic endomorph and made it to about 10% (from ca. 20%) with perfect diet & lifting, but anything further won't happen for me without cardio.

Other people on this thread have different genetics/fat storage patterns/metabolisms that require them to do no cardio.

There is no single answer. Get off the couch and spend a few weeks adding cardio to your regimen but changing nothing else and find out for yourself.

I am the original poster and have done numerous hours of cardio. I speak from my unsuccessful experiences with it. You say it took cardio to get you below 10%. I say bullshit. It was all in your diet. You say your diet was perfect. Now thats debatable. The only reason the cardio may have helped is because your diet wasnt perfect and was not manipulated properly. For example: If you wanted to go say 500 calories below maintanence which is a normal cutting diet and lets say your required calorie intake was 2400 calories. If you were to divide this into 8 meal portions which equals 300 calories(clean) per meal eaten every 2 hours I highly doubt your cardio sessions would even compare to the metabolic activity rate this type of diet would produce. Dont use cardio as your scapegoat for your inability to properly utilize your diet and on top of it label me a lazy ass. All this endomorph, ectomorph stuff is bull shit. The only difference with this body type stuff is the rate at which one loses or gains fat or muscle. Some gain and lose faster. Some slower. Either body type can train their metabolism to become a fat burning machine. Im not trying to bash you but you saying there is no debate about this topic is one-track minded and if what you do works for you then thats great. Telling yourself and others that cardio is our only option is just limiting our capabilities and your own.

 

[DaMan]

I speak from my unsuccessful experiences with it. You say it took cardio to get you below 10%. I say bullshit. It was all in your diet. You say your diet was perfect. Now thats debatable. The only reason the cardio may have helped is because your diet wasnt perfect and was not manipulated properly. For example: If you wanted to go say 500 calories below maintanence which is a normal cutting diet and lets say your required calorie intake was 2400 calories. If you were to divide this into 8 meal portions which equals 300 calories(clean) per meal eaten every 2 hours I highly doubt the your cardio sessions would even compare to the metabolic activity rate this type of diet would produce. Dont use cardio as your scapegoat for your inability to properly utilize your diet and on top of it label me a lazy ass. All this endomorph, ectomorph stuff is bull shit. The only difference with this body type stuff is the rate at which one loses or gains fat or muscle. Some gain and lose faster. Some slower. Either body type can train their metabolism to become a fat burning machine. Im not trying to bash you but you saying there is no debate about this topic is one-track minded and if what you do works for you then thats great. Telling yourself and others that cardio is our only option is just limiting our capabilities and your own.

If you're so convinced that cardio is futile why did you post this in the first place? Ever consider the fact that maybe you just don't know how to properly manipulate your cardio?

You seem to know very little about thyroid and metabolism manipulation, no offense. Dieting down reaches a point of diminishing returns for many of us - I can have a deficit of 2000kcal a day if I want by eating 500kcal and nothing else. Ya really think that's gonna take me below 10%? I assume you know what the word "catabolic" means, right? And you prolly also know how percentages work and that I can lose 10lbs while INCREASING my bf%, right?

In case you decide to consider that - heaven forbid - you may be wrong, feel free to look up windsprints and HIIT and a couple of studies on the effects of aerobic/anaerobic exercise and beta-oxidation on adipocytes and big words like that. If you've never tried windsprints or HIIT then do it and post your results in a month.

And btw, I in no way said cardio is the only option. I said for SOME of us it is, not counting goodies like DNP. For some it isn't. Whatever. Just figure out what works for you - period. If cardio doesn't then skip it and diet, end of problem.

 

[rangerx83]

You seem to know very little about thyroid and metabolism manipulation, no offense. Dieting down reaches a point of diminishing returns for many of us - I can have a deficit of 2000kcal a day if I want by eating 500kcal and nothing else. Ya really think that's gonna take me below 10%? I assume you know what the word "catabolic" means, right? And you prolly also know how percentages work and that I can lose 10lbs while INCREASING my bf%, right?

But DaMan,
if you create a 2000kcal deficit by being on a threadmill for say 2.5 hours you'd have the same horrific catabolic effects as drastically cutting enough out of your diet to reach a 2000kcal deficit. You would also have seriously stressed joints for doing a practical marathon on the threadmill, but that's a different issue.

That's way too much deficit. I'm 4.7%bf and I reached this by NOT doing any cardio as well. (I was 12%bf in january). My problem was that whenever I would do cardio it would lull me into a false sense of security and I would eat extra , thinking that it wouldn't effect me. Also for some reason, cardio makes me hungry as hell.
Way too hungry.

I just cut out my late evening snacks which were about 500kcals and lost fat. I also started working out everyday, but I was in the gym for only an hour each day!

Instead compare creating a 500kcal deficit thru dieting with using the stairmaster for 30 minutes. You'll find that they both would create the same caloric deficit, and are equally as catabolic, and equally effectiuve in fat loss.

Cardio *will* help you achieve fat loss, but that's because you're creating a caloric deficit, that's placing your calories below maintanance. But you could also achieve fat loss by creating that exact caloric deficit either thru eliminating some favorite junk food, or engaging in some other activity that would also burn the same amount of caloris as the cardio.

Again, cardio will work, but it's not a pre-requisite for losing fat. Now there are other cardio-vascular benefits to cardio, which is why I'm now doing cardio 3x a week.


rangerx83

 

[Matman]

Ranger. . . going from 12% bf to 4.7% bf in less than 4 months, that equates to a little under 2% bf reduction per MONTH. . . now that's very damn impressive, not to mention you did this with NO cardio but by conforming your diet and working out more, what's your secret?

I too made great strides by adjusting my diet but nothing like what you mentioned. I cut out the night snacks, did away with the pasta, bread and rice, basically cut my carbs down drastically. This made a big difference but I'm still between 10% and 11%. Fuck dude. . . 4.7% you lucky bastard, you must have a case of gentics on your side...you gotta be ripped like a mo fo.

 

[rangerx83]

Ranger. . . going from 12% bf to 4.7% bf in less than 4 months, that equates to a little under 2% bf reduction per MONTH. . . now that's very damn impressive, not to mention you did this with NO cardio but by conforming your diet and working out more, what's your secret?

I too made great strides by adjusting my diet but nothing like what you mentioned. I cut out the night snacks, did away with the pasta, bread and rice, basically cut my carbs down drastically. This made a big difference but I'm still between 10% and 11%. Fuck dude. . . 4.7% you lucky bastard, you must have a case of gentics on your side...you gotta be ripped like a mo fo.

Hey Matman, thanx for the compliment,
I used T3/clen/yohimbine for the first month (january). This got me down from 12% to 7.4%.The last 1.5 months I used massive doses of ALA (3000-4000mg/day). This got me down to 4.7%. I used a combination of working out everyday with weights, low carbing mixed with high carbing, strategic use of ALA. (see the threads on using ALA for cutting). The Fat Track electronic calipers helped a great deal. Whenever I'd see that fat loss stopped and I started gaining fat, I'd start low carbing. This would work for a while. Then once the fat loss stalled, I would high carb again. I could have been doing low carb alternated with high carb 1.5-2X per week.

I contribute my fat loss to disciplined dieting, wonderful chemicals , and most of all ALA, which kept me in ketosis even on my high carb days. That stuff really works...

I am nowactually 4.2%, according to my fattrack calipers! At my gym they have a set of super accurate, expensive electronic calipers, and I'm going to verify that my measurements match theirs.

And yes, I may be ripped, but I'm tiny. I was 203 at 12%bf. I am now approximately 180 at 4.2%bf. I lost about 7 lbs of LBM. The rest was fat. My strength ain't what it used to be. I'm going about 20lbs lighter on the benchpress. But you know what, the chicks dig it, so who am I to complain!


January was the last 4 weeks of my cycle. I did 50mg tren with 50mg test prop EOD. That is all. In late february I started ** anavar at 60mg/day. I'm still on that.


I am now doing cardio, for the cardiovascular benefits, and mostly because I've got a mean case of tendonitis in both elbows. So I've got to give the weight training a break.

So to sum it up I did not need to do cardio to get to where I was.

regards,

Rangerx83