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How far can I go naturally ?

Y

Yeo

New member
I am 5'9" 22years old and an extreme hardgainer (6" wrists), when I started lifting I was 118, I am currently weigh 135 and want to go as far as I can naturally before I start taking gear. Just wondering what kind of weight I can expect to get to with my genetics. Can anyone offer an insight ?
 
Yeo said:
I am 5'9" 22years old and an extreme hardgainer (6" wrists), when I started lifting I was 118, I am currently weigh 135 and want to go as far as I can naturally before I start taking gear. Just wondering what kind of weight I can expect to get to with my genetics. Can anyone offer an insight ?
Click to expand...

Nobody can tell you how far you can go naturally the only person that can set limits on how far you go is you.
 
A lot more than what you're at. I'd guess somewher around 170-190. Your training and diet must be in order.

Check out the DC training sticky on top of this board. You might need more recovery days, but all the rules still apply. Peace & good luck. I can personally give you some help if you want, PM me or post or somethin :)
 
You can take it further than from 118 to 135. I took it 45lbs higher...

Diet is pretty important in this, alot more than training (although training with some fire will only help)... you could ask the diet board for some advice... I know what works for me... but... heh...

C-ditty
 
Depends on your goals too... if you're lookin for the Men's Health look (like I am), you can do that naturally... if you're looking for the M&F look, you might need a little help from our friends Deca, Primo, & Winny... if you're looking for the FLEX look, you'd better load up on the D-bols, A-bombs, and Test suspensions.

Whatever you do, don't jump to the juice prematurely. Eat right, train hard, sleep heavy, don't drink. Give it some time. If you're still considering Vitamin S then, do RESEARCH--and lots of it, then and only then, take the plunge. Good luck to you.
 
good advice Cuts...you definately can go A LOT farther naturally...whats your diet and training like? post it up, and we can give you a better idea.
 
When I started lifting at 14 I was about 115 at 5'7". I was the skinniest person you ever saw. When I started lifting my friends laughed at me and said you don't have the body type for getting big. Today 8 years later I am at a natural 218 at 5'9".It just takes hard work and dedication. I must say though as this was the case for me, make sure not to overtrain. For smaller guys it is really easy. Just eat and lift right and you will grow. Good Luck.
 
You can take your body farther naturally than you may think. Don't puss out by using gear too early and convincing yourself it was a genetic barrier you hit when it was simply impatience or laziness.

Bust your ass as hard as you can, and don't ever believe in limitations. Someday, you will hit a wall, but don't make it come any sooner by wasting anymore time thinking about it. Now get back to the squat rack:)
 
Thanks for the advice guys, I used to train three times a week doing 6-8 sets per body part until I realised I was getting nowhere fast due to overtraining. I now train twice a week Mon and Fri focusing on heavy basics.

Mon Dumbell bench press 2 sets 6
Wide grip Pull ups 2 sets 8
Bicep curls 2 sets 8

Fri Squats 2sets 20
Seated press 2sets 6
Crunchs 2 sets 12
Shrugs 2 sets 15

I increase the weight every week or two, my plan is to stick with this until I can't increse my weights any further then I would change my compound excercises to maybe Dips, incline bench press Deadlifts, leg press and change my isolation excercises too.
My diet is about 180-200g protein, carbs vary and not sure about fat, keep calories above 2500.
 
Yeo said:
Thanks for the advice guys, I used to train three times a week doing 6-8 sets per body part until I realised I was getting nowhere fast due to overtraining. I now train twice a week Mon and Fri focusing on heavy basics.

Mon Dumbell bench press 2 sets 6
Wide grip Pull ups 2 sets 8
Bicep curls 2 sets 8

Fri Squats 2sets 20
Seated press 2sets 6
Crunchs 2 sets 12
Shrugs 2 sets 15

I increase the weight every week or two, my plan is to stick with this until I can't increse my weights any further then I would change my compound excercises to maybe Dips, incline bench press Deadlifts, leg press and change my isolation excercises too.
My diet is about 180-200g protein, carbs vary and not sure about fat, keep calories above 2500.
Click to expand...


more, more more.

that is too low volume and diet. im just 1 inch taller than you at 5"10 and im 22 years old, as of january. i started doing pushups and such in the 9th grade. started working out in 10 grade for wrestling. trained for 3 years and wrestled for 3 years and graduated at a whopping 163 lbs........ the most i had ever weighed. my weight classes i wrestled were 125lb,130lb,135lb,140lb,145lbs. right now im still the same height 4 years later but i weigh 260 lbs. and we aint talking fat brother. i have 18 inch arms cold 32 inch thighs, 52 inch chest and 18 inch calves. waist right now is at 38. im probably a little under 260lbs right now. a month ago i started dieting for a bodybuilding contest i have in August. the point?...... i wouldnt even know what steroids look like if i saw them. in may of 1999 when i graduated at 163lbs, i started eating like every meal was my last meal on earth. i would have made better gains but i was over training. (i was doing 25 sets per bodypart). but by the next May of 2000, i was 225lbs, fat, but 225lbs i dieted down to 165lbs by august. when i was wrestling 15 months earlier i was 142 lbs with 7% bodyfat. when i competed in a bodybuiling show 15 months later, i was 165lbs with 5% bodyfat. that was three years ago. i have done 2 other shows and am getting ready to compete in that same show again.

sorry the rant was long, just wanted to give my point. i probably will take steroids, but not untill im 30. that way i know i put in 15 years own my own.

X
 
Thanks for the input Exodus, but you have to remember that we have different genetics my friend. You have obviously been very successful in your quest for size and muscle and I'm sure I will be too but I don't think increasing the volume drasticly is what is required here, though I may up the sets to three. Have you read D.Cs training methods, he suggests doing only one work set per body part and gets outstanding results with it.
 
Yeo said:
Have you read D.Cs training methods, he suggests doing only one work set per body part and gets outstanding results with it.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, in the DC program, muscles are trained more frequently than in your program, though. You are also not using all the rest-pause and static holds and all that stuff.
 
when i started out i was 115 lbs LOL. eventho i'm short (5'8 1/2) thats still pretty damnnn scrawny. i'm up to 175 lbs now and still got plenty of room for improvement. along the way, if you hit a plateau and think you have reached your set point, you are probably wrong. i've hit 3, 4 plateaus, most noticeably at 135lbs or so i was stuck there for a while. then i hit another plateau at 160 lbs or so. each time u hit a plateau, dont get discouraged, all u need is small changes or a new routine, or even a new supplement. i have tiny wrists like you they look ridiculous cuz my arms are now over 16 inches and my wrists look like half an inch LOL. if i could gain 60 lbs, so can u man. where u are now, u need to block out all those juice thoughts. a guy who knows ahead of time he will be a millionaire ten years from now will drop out of school and not work hard for anything. he'll just sit on his lazy azz cuz he knows his easy way out is coming soon.
 
Thaks for the input Jxaxsxe530, I have not read the D.C routine yet but will do so. I am very determined to get to 180 on my own merit without any juice. What kind of routine did you use to get yourself to 170 ?
 
WOAH

DO NOT LISTEN TO EXODUS.

YOU ARE COMPLETELY CORRECT, THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ADDING WEIGHT TO THAT BAR EVERY WEEK or close to it.

It sounds like you have your head on your shoulders pretty good with your training. Some modifications I would make, here is the routine you posted:

Mon Dumbell bench press 2 sets 6
Wide grip Pull ups 2 sets 8
Bicep curls 2 sets 8

Fri Squats 2sets 20
Seated press 2sets 6
Crunchs 2 sets 12
Shrugs 2 sets 15

1. Change the second day to Thursday, this will space things out a bit better.

2. Eliminate a set of shrugs, replace with a set of stiff legged deadlifts.

3. Move the seated press to Monday.

4. Add a rowing movement...here is how I would do this routine:

5. SLIGHTLY more volume, but not what exodus is talking about.

Monday

Bench press 2 x 6
Close grip bench 1 x 10
Overhead press 2 x 8
Barbell curl 2 x 8
Pullup 2 x 10
Hammer row 1-2 x 10

Thursday

Squat 1 x 20 OR 2 x 10-15
Stiff legged deads 1 x 12
Back hyper extension 1 x 10
Shrugs 1 x 10
Calf raise 1 x 12
Ab work
 
Hi Debaser that sound good, I was acctully thinking of moving the overhead press to Monday. I have never done a deadlift but I know they are good for adding thickness to your back. As I said, I haven't read all of D.Cs Cycling for pennies yet but will do so tonight or tommorrow. There is meant to be lots of stretching isn't there. I'm sure I will still get good results without them though, right ? Also how long do you rest for inbetween sets ? I used to rest for 1-2 mins until I read Beyond Brawn by Stuart McRobert (author of Hardgainer magazine) who says 4 mins between sets which I have been doing lately, which seems a bit long. What do you suggest ? Also I've never heard of the Hammer Row.
 
Welcome to the tiny wrist club. I've got 6" wrists myself. I started out 3 years ago this month at 5'10" 135lbs. Today I'm 185lbs(haven't used gear) at the same bodyfat level when I was at 135. It's a going to take consistently shoving enough of the right food down your throat, plus a lot of heavy compound lifting, but I'd shoot for 170-175lbs right now at your height.
 
What diet and training routine did you use to get to where you are now Supersizeme ? What do you think of my current training routine and the one debaser recommended ?
 
Yeo -- I managed to dig up a google cached version of the old maximum muscular bodyweight calculator found on weightrainer.com

Anyway, you didn't post your ankle measurements, so here's your maximum muscular bodyweight at 8% bodyfat, 5'9", 6.0 inch wrists and several different ankle measurements:

ankle: 9" -- bodyweight: 180
ankle: 8" -- bodyweight: 166.8
ankle. 7" -- bodyweight: 155.2

So just interpolate your bodyweight from those. As to the accuracy of the calculator, I think it's pretty good. The guy who came up with the formula applied it to the known measurements of all the Mr. Olympia and Universe winners before drugs started being used. The maximum error between their actual weights and his predicted weights were 1.6%.

Side note: the biggest of the olde tyme bodybuilders was 225 pounds at 6'1" (Reg Park). Kinda makes you suspect a helluva lot of juicing going on nowadays.

-casualbb
 
the size off of wrist size calculators arent worth much at all. just some guys opinion. there are big pl'ers with small wrists believe it or not.
Click to expand...

There are also 150 pound guys that can bench 300. Does that mean there are a lot of them? Note: said PL'ers could be juicing.

And this is just your opinion. Does that make it "not worth much?"

I think the accuracy of the predictions speak for themselves.

-casualbb
 
just fatten yourself up like a baby whale /:)
eat, eat, eat and put on whatever weight u can. Doesnt matter if it is fat coz us ectomorphs can burn it off without trying. I often put oil into my shakes and stuff like that for more fat coz i now that i am capable of burning it off by just eating normally.

OH and train 5 times a week on needsizes 5sets by 5 reps program. Focus your days workout around a heavy compound lift eg benchpress, squat, deadlift, close grip benchpress, barbell curl and you should be guranteed to put on weight.
 
hey, what's that calculator say for somebody who's 5'9 and has 7.5 inch wrists and 10 inch ankles? just curious what it says..
 
Train 5 times a week, are you joking, I'd overtrain in no time bro. Don't relly know about the 5*5 routine, I might look into it, I'm going to stick with low volume workouts for the time being though. I think I will start putting olive oil in my shakes, thanks for the tip bro.
 
Jeremys: for you, 208 @ 8% bodyfat.

Yeo: you're right about the low volume. Check out HST: www.hsnhst.com

If anyone wants to play with the calculator, search on google for "maximum muscular bodyweight," making sure to use quotes. For the first entry that shows up, click on the cached version (unfortunately the actual site is down).

-casualbb
 
ok, my LBM is 195 right now, so how much is that off by? i hope i don't plateau in a year or two. that coudl suck
 
casualbb said:
Jeremys: for you, 208 @ 8% bodyfat.

Yeo: you're right about the low volume. Check out HST: www.hsnhst.com

If anyone wants to play with the calculator, search on google for "maximum muscular bodyweight," making sure to use quotes. For the first entry that shows up, click on the cached version (unfortunately the actual site is down).

-casualbb
Click to expand...

I dont know how accurate this is. I already was 13 pounds more than it says I could, and I am over all of the maximum measurements it has for me as well.
 
RusPA81 said:


I dont know how accurate this is. I already was 13 pounds more than it says I could, and I am over all of the maximum measurements it has for me as well.
Click to expand...

yeah

maybe i could be well over what it says for me...i started lifting right when i started puberty as a wee little fat guy, maybe that whole puberty thing influenced things quite a bit. i'm guessing that's why i am what i am now (nothing great, but still..)
 
In that case, right on!

You could have a big structure in a way that wasn't accounted for by wrists or ankles, or have naturally high T levels. Also, if you have juiced at one point it can elevate you above your genetic potential for some time.

I figure it provides a realistic goal to shoot for. Most people aren't anywhere near where it has them. I think its value is to put things in perspective in this world of juiced BB's. Everybody seems to think anything less than mid 200's is small.

-casualbb
 
hey bro, i have used anything from high volume twice a day 5 days a week split routine to 2 times a week HIT training style to anything in between. the first few years were pretty much trial and errors... for me personally i believe the best way for a hard gainer to pack on mass would be to do HEAVY low rep compound exercises, LOW volume (2 heavy sets maximum), and do them more frequently. I dont think a beginner with not much development yet, can overtrain using low volume high frequency method. Good example is my chest. Last 2, 3 weeks my chest has grown like mad after i took DC's suggestion of doing one all-out set and doing them every 4 days. My bench shot from 225 to 265 in a couple weeks. DC recommends slow negatives, but from my endless reading on slow negatives, i have decided not to do them eventhough i do keep a smooth medium pace. Keep in mind: keep it simple, heavy weight, low reps, low volume, more frequently, and ProLab NLarge II :) . Also, i have tried in the past, but i dont believe in any of those fancy drop set, giant set, superset, etc principles. I dont think they help a hard gainer, but thats just my opinion.
 
Look man, its really quite simple..its been posted to death, but maybe its just not getting through to everyone;

1. Eat shit loads of food, this means eat anything and everything in sight..some days I eat a big meal every 2 hours. Dont say to yourself ok, i will chuck in a extra shake or I will try and eat a little more, thats bullshit! EAT TILL YOUR GUT IS BLOATED AND IF YOU EAT ANYMORE YOU WILL CHUCK YOUR GUTS UP, than when you have digested the last meal EAT AGAIN!

2. HEAVY low rep compound exercises at least 3x a week.

I dont know how long you have been training but at a certain point you will have a mind muscle connection....Once you have this you will know how hard to push yourself and what your body responds best too. If you walk into that gym and give it 100% you will walk out feeling 110%
 
Did you ever wonder why you don't have a green karma dot anymore, Aussie? Maybe because you give crap advice....

.... the "eat everything and anything until you're bloated and about to puke" thing is wrong. It's simply wrong. You don't need to stuff yourself to the point of physical pain and bloating.... that's ridiculous. Yes, you need to eat a lot.... you need high protein and high calories, and you need carbs and fats from the right sources. But after a certain point, the "eat everything" diet does nothing but add to fat gain.... and can even hinder your hypertrophy progress.

That's why it's not getting through to people.... because it's not the best way.
 
I used to train similar to D.Cs routine which infact is pretty similar to the methods promoted in the Body for Life book. But wasn't sure if I was overtraining so I cut my training to twice a week. My question is how do you know when you are fully recovered from your last session ?
 
the bottom line is your 135 and just getting into the game, so you shouldn't worry yet about natural limitations. Lift hard and eat a ton. Go for short term goals like adding weight each workout
 
make sure you target specific body parts each workout sesh also, or else youll never get nice gains.
 
A green dot doesn't mean shit you fucking retard. I bet your a small little weakling...eniough said


DanielBishop said:
Did you ever wonder why you don't have a green karma dot anymore, Aussie? Maybe because you give crap advice....

.... the "eat everything and anything until you're bloated and about to puke" thing is wrong. It's simply wrong. You don't need to stuff yourself to the point of physical pain and bloating.... that's ridiculous. Yes, you need to eat a lot.... you need high protein and high calories, and you need carbs and fats from the right sources. But after a certain point, the "eat everything" diet does nothing but add to fat gain.... and can even hinder your hypertrophy progress.

That's why it's not getting through to people.... because it's not the best way.
Click to expand...
 
I personally think that any standardized formula for determining an individual's muscular potential is bullshit. That's why we are "individuals."

The worst part about it is after somone has busted their ass and finds out that they are at their "limit" based upon this calulator, they'll gonna say "shit! well I guess that's it for me, pass the D-bol." So, even if it has some merit, it shouldn't be used. It sucks either way.
 
collegiateLifter said:
the size off of wrist size calculators arent worth much at all. just some guys opinion. there are big pl'ers with small wrists believe it or not.
Click to expand...

That is becaues they are not 8% bodyfat. Did you notice that part. Max lean bodyweight with 8% bodyfat. Obviously if you don't care to have 20+% bodyfat, then you can get much heavier.

I agree with Taibox somewhat- This is just a general guideline based off of other people. General guidelines don't take into several factors like your personal genetics etc. Saying "I can't make 200lbs because this caculator said I can't" is stupid. Fooling yourself into thinking that you can get 260lbs at 8% bodyfat at anything below 7ft naturally (you know, without steroids) is just being stupid. The best bet is to fall in the middle and be realistic about it, but don't set small goals. Aim for the moon, if you miss, well- at least you will be amongst the stars.
 
Yeo,

I am a typical hardgainer. I had been working on this routine for some time and it worked well for me.

Monday:

Chest: Incline Bench x 4
Incline dumbells x 3
Dips or flat bench x 3

Biceps: Barbell Curls x 4
Dumbell preachers x 3

Triceps: Close grip bench x 4
Cable pushdowns x 3


Wednseday:

Back: Pull-ups x 3
barbell rows x 4
t-bar rows x 3


Shoulders: Dumbell press x 3
military press x 3
Pull-press x 2
shrugs x 2

Calves: Seated calf raises x 4


Saturday:

Legs: Squats x 5
leg press x 4
leg extensions x 3
Regular deadlifts x 4 (4 working sets)
calf raises x 5
hamstring curls x 4

I work in a rep range of 5-8, occasionally going down to 4 on deadlifts squats etc.

I don't do cardio other than just light walking for heart maintenance.

The above routine gave me 4 days rest each week, which was great, and more importantly, a minimum of one day rest between workouts.

I have never juiced. Unless you want to compete or look like a freak, forget the juice and spend your money on improving other aspects of your life such as education or going on a holiday or saving for a house or investing in shares.

You are only 22 and with a few years of hard training, you can improve your physique out of sight. Eat as much as is comfortable for you to eat. I know it can be hard, but i keep eating and snacking all day. Drink alot of milk if you can stomach it. Milk is a great way to put on weight/body mass. Don't worry about getting fat......you are a long way from that. Having said that, don't intentionally eat fatty food just for the sake of putting weight on.
 
vgroover - hows that routine done for you ? being a hardgainer, what did you start at (and when) and what are you at now ?

your advice at juicing is realy making me think, i liked that
 
Gman,

To be honest, i can't remember where was at when i started. I'm 5'7 and around 165lbs now, but i've never been above around 10% BF in my life. I am lucky in that i have good muscle shape and proportions (28 inch waist) so i can look much bigger than i actually am. Keeping at a low BF serves an important purpose. It means i don't need cardio. Cardio will strip weight off me too easily.

You guys are much younger than me. I'm 30. You have many years ahead of you, and if you train consistently and hard, there is no reason why you can't look exceptionally good naturally by your mid 20's.

I never measure my bodyparts. I only use the mirror. If you can't honestly just use the morror to judge your progress, then there is something wrong. Too many people get caught up in stats and numbers.

Gman, do some sums now on what it will cost you to juice for the next number of years and also the risk of ruining your health, and then tell me whether you are not better off investing or saving that money, while making excellent gains naturally. I believe you can make gains naturally well into your 30's and even 40's.

The workout worked well for me. As a hardgainer, i have always trained with low reps 5-8, and concentrated on compound, free weight moves. I am now trying the 5x5 and i'm liking it. Never been interested in cables or machines, they won't do shit for you.

Deadlifts have been the single most important exercise for me. I'll never win the Olympia or look like a freak, but then again, neither will anyone else here. I look better than most of the population and my health is intact and i will continue to make gains naturally.
 
Thanks for the advice vgroover, that seems like alot of sets per bodypart though. I don't doubt that it has worked for you, do those sets include warmup sets or are they all work sets ?
 
Yeo said:
I used to train similar to D.Cs routine which infact is pretty similar to the methods promoted in the Body for Life book. But wasn't sure if I was overtraining so I cut my training to twice a week. My question is how do you know when you are fully recovered from your last session ?
Click to expand...
One of the best , yet simplest test is ...are you stronger then the last time you trained that same bodypart,,,have you gone up in reps or weight or both? ...if not it could be a sign ...I have been doing DC training for 5 weeks and have improved every workout!
 
How many warmup sets are you doing before your 1 work set Deepsquat and are you training three times a week ? What about you gman ? It's just that I find that I am not fully recovered from my last workout when I train three times a week.
 
It includes warm up sets.

My last one or two exercises where i do two sets for some exercises i don't bother with warm-ups, just launch straight into it.

It's basically 10 stes for larger bodyparts and 6 or 7 for smaller. I haven't found that too much and when you're taking a full day rest between workouts, recovery is ok.
 
Oh well each to his own vgroover, think I'll stick to 1-2worksets per bodypart and see how it goes, my weights have been going up on most of my excercises. When I plateau, I'll change my core excercises. I like the sound of 5*5 training too, I might give that a go when I am no longer gaining on my low volume training.
 
YEO,

i will be honest....... my advice is not crap as the wonderful Debaser said. eat a ton, eat clean or eat whatever, just eat. eat enough to put some fat on. its no big deal. really. keep your sets per bodypart under10 sets. lift compound, lift heavy, and lift intense.

im sorry if this sounds bad but it sounds like your afraid of hard work, of putting in effort. you scared to overtrain, but its simple, pro's and even the people on this board have overtrained at one point. then they figured it out and backed off. i dont think your overtrained in the least bit. just quite looking for the magic formula that will make you big. have fun, train intensly, and dedicate yourself to the hard work. cause that's what it is, HARD and WORK. if you dont want to work hard, then go home.

sorry if that sounded mean. its just not as complicated as your making it.

X
 
Why work hard when you don't have to? If low work volume is producing results and he is happy with it, how is that afraid to work hard? Do you refuse to drive, because not running there is too afraid to work? 10 miles too far for you to run to work? You pussy.

Or, perhaps he trains in something else. Martial arts, football, wrestling, etc. Perhaps he trains light so the soreness does not ruin his life. Some people have lifes outside bodybuilding ya know. Sometimes it is nice to get stronger but not be so sore you can't bend down and pick up your car keys that fell out of your numb fingers.
Perhaps you should think of these things before you bash a person for not working out like you do. Instead of opening your mouth and looking like a tool and calling somebody a pussy for not doing more work than necessary.

If it works don't bash it.
 
Thanks for sticking up for me epimetheus but I don't think exodus meant any disrespect if he did then he's a wanker. Exodus, believe me my friend, I am not afraid of hard work. Thanks for your opinion but I have tried the eight sets per bodypart way and got no results with it. If I thought I would put on more size training that way I would have carried on that way. The way I see it is that too many people read bb magazines and see the routines that the top bbs use and think if that's working for them then it will work for me too. What they forget is that these top bbs are using massive amounts of gear and are genetic freaks so they can get away with training at that level of intensity. Ectomorphs like me cannot, I appreciate your input and you are entitled to your opinion but you don't know me bro so don't make the assumption that I'm affraid of hard work.

Peace to all
 
what the hell is a "wanker"?........ just kidding.. yeo i didnt mean any dissrespect, just calling things like i see them. i think that that this whole world, (myself included) likes to have things handed to them for free instead of working hard, thats all.

and to epimethis. first off grow up. there is a difference between hard work and logic. its not a matter of hard work to walk to work or to drive, its a matter of logic. nothing wrong with yeo looking for help but his post made it sound like he wanted someone to tell him the magical rep/set/number exercise combination. and fact is it doesnt exist. what works for me doesnt neccesarily work for you, get it? and my work ethic is the way it should be. nobody in the history of this planet ever said, man, if wouldnt have worked so hard my life would have been all roses and daisies........im sorry you cant bend down and pick up your keys. it breaks my heart, really. how could you, or anyone else be that sad. i have a full time job, i go to school, i am a newlywed, and i go and sped the whole weekend out playing. yet with my "hard work" that your so afraid of i manage to be able to pick up the dang keys.

and last, if his workouts were pending around some sport he played, dont you think he would have mentioned it, retard.

X
 
Well, I was a bit harsh I suppose. To address a few of your "points" though- My point was that you don't know what he was capable of, that perhaps 1-2 working sets was all his body needed to grow, anything more could hinder him or was not necessary.

I don't think you know what logic is either. Difference between hard work and logic? Uhh, ok. I didn't say they were the same thing. Perhaps you mean that running 10 miles to work is a piss poor analogy to use to working out at the gym. Inductive or deductive logic is a far cry from expositional skills I suppose.

If you cared to think about posts before spewing forth your cunning (retard, childish, etc) insults, you would notice that nowhere did I mention *I* couldn't bend down to pick up my keys. Perhaps you need to get a dictionary and look up hyperbole.

I am not afraid of work, I never said I followed a low volume routine. However, what works for me, might not work for him- and since it didn't seem to dawn upon your brilliance, since we all know genius' are absentminded, I just thought I would bring it to your attention.

BTW, I, names, and the first letter of the first word in paragraphs are supposed to be capitalized. I am sure you know that because you are in school though. Congradulations on your marriage.
 
What are you two like...Anyway, epimetheus are you an ectomorph and how do you go about your training?
 
Yeo- I am not an ectomorph. More of the endomorph. Medium upperbody build, wide hips and large legs/calves.
I normally have a 3 day split routine and do 4 sets per bodypart on the larger muscles(Rows, OH press, BP, Squat and DL) and 2-3 on the smaller lifts. (triceps, biceps, abs, lowerback) I generally do 8-12 reps and pyramid up. 60-90 seconds rest in between sets. That is when I am doing the bodybuilder bulk up thing.

I started cutting last week and started a different routine that I made up, well put together from various other methods. A sort of cut and paste. It looks something like this- With my other activities included. (keep in mind I burn ~1500 calories at work, I have a physical job)

Monday- 50% Dynamic effort day. 2 sets each exercise. 5 quick reps-

DB bench press (no spotter)
OH Press
Deadlift
Squat
Pull downs
Shrugs
Curls
skullcrushers
Weighted sit-ups
Side bends (weighted)

Run on treadmill for 25 mins- haven't been doing cardio for along time so can only do it @ 5mph. Goal is 6.5+

Strechs for 30 mins once at home- (use my new book by Pavel Tsatsouline- Beyond Stretching)

Teaching my self Tai-Chi, only have the practice, begining, and first four forms down so far. - 30 mins of practice.

Shadowbox (and kick) for 20-30 mins (no bags in my tiny apartment- no bags at the YMCA)

I do the same exercises Tuesday, except I increase the % of 1rep max up to 65%. Wednesday I increase it to 80%. I take off Thursday (still do my regular non-lifting activites) and Friday I come in and do 95-100% ME day. I only do one set of 1-2 reps on Friday.

My goal for this cutting phase is strength gain. And about 9 more lbs of flab to cease to exist.

I will probably go 3 weeks on, 1 week off with this routine while I cut. 1 week off to let my CNS recouperate. We will see how it goes. Once I get done cutting, with my new found strength I will go into a bulk phase and switch back to a normal routine.
 
Oh, I will substitute with different exercises on occasion. Do wide grip pull ups or BB rows instead of pull downs, close grip bench press instead of skull crushers, side lats or dumbell presses instead of OH BB presses, etc.
 
Sounds like you have it well thought out bro, looks like a really good routine. Good luck with the cutting up dude:)
 
epitomes or whatever your name is....... that was the most retarded post i ever read. btw, im typing on a chat board, im not being graded like in school, so grow up.

but in response to your question yeo.
i train with my own modified 5x5 routein.

monday chest and back.
wide grip deads 3-5 sets of 5 reps.
some type of bench for the same.
db rows for 2-3 sets of 10
db bench for the same.
pulldowns for 1-2 sets of 15
db flys for the same.

tuesday-traps and shoulders.
standing press for 3-5 sets of 5
hang clean for 3-5 sets of 5
side cable for 2-3 sets of 10
db shrugs for the same.
side db rasie for 1-2 set of 15
db shrug rows for the same.

wed cardio and abs

thurs arms
db curl for 3-5 sets of 5
close grip press for the same.
incline curls for 2-3 sets of 10
overhead ext for the same.
concentration curls for 1-2 set of 15
press down for the same.

friday cardio and abs

saturday - legs.
squat- 3-5 set of 5
st leg dead same.
sissy squat for 2-3 set of 10
lying leg curl for the same.
leg ext for 1-2 set of 15.
band ham curl for same.

sunday off or cardio..

im an ectomorph, but if you look at me i look like an endomorph. i have a very high metabolism. i am in contest prep for a bb show on august 16. i started my diet mid january at 260 and looking to compete around 210. thats 7 and half months to loose 50 lbs eaisly. i have no idea what i weigh, i made a promise not to look.

i eat mainly rice and mashed potatoes as my carbs. protein is a shake for breakfast, then almonds, then 1 lb of ground turkey, a shrimp and spinach salad, and then chicken breast.

my cardio is 30 minutes on an 5% incline between 3.0 to 3.5 mph.

im also wearing a 30lb weight vest all day long including my cardio, just not during my workouts and when i sleep. i plan on getting it up to 50 lbs by mid june.

X
 
Exodus said:
epitomes or whatever your name is....... that was the most retarded post i ever read. btw, im typing on a chat board, im not being graded like in school, so grow up.

X
Click to expand...

Yes, it is apparent that I am so immature, my posts are retarted and you are god's gift to mankind. I tremble in your presence.

I find it hilarious that you make fun of a guy on a message board for not giving his 110% in lifting, make fun of me because I tell you that not everybody's life is BBing, and then you tell me that taking the .0005 seconds it takes to type and spell PROPERLY and professionally is too much trouble and it is "just a message board." The "grow up" thing is a petty imbecile non-sequitur, considering my posts actually sound like I am older than a 5th grader.

And my name is Epimetheus. I know it is hard to read a name from greek mythology, the words are funny from things like L33t, and Dude, and stuff. I forgive you.
 
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Exodus, I am not being funny mate but how can you be an ectomorph at 260pounds ? You must be hitting the juice hard, what weight did you start off at ?
 
no, im not touching the juice............. nor am i ripped up at 260 lbs............ i graduated in 1999 at 165 lbs........ that was the most i weighed ever by 20 lbs........... all of my eating is becuase of the fact that im an ectomorph. the food is too offset my metabolism so that i can gain weight. yes i put on fat, more than some people, but it is what works for me since i am natural. when i step on stage in august i will be between 200 and 210. you know, so just becuase im an ectomorph doesnt mean i that i havent put on some size in the last 6 years of training. so yeah, yeo, stick with it, keep on plugging away at the HARD WORK, and you will go far.

good luck yeo.

X
 
epimetheus said:


Yes, it is apparent that I am so immature, my posts are retarted and you are god's gift to mankind. I tremble in your presence.(well, whatever you want, i can give you my email address so you can start sending me fan mail.)

I find it hilarious that you make fun of a guy on a message board for not giving his 110% in lifting ( oh im sorry im dedicated and try to motivate people, he wants to know how far he can go naturally, so to do that he must go 110%.)

make fun of me because I tell you that not everybody's life is BBing( my whole life is not bodybuilding either, but his question wasnt how far can i go naturally and not have bodybuiliding as my whole life)

and then you tell me that taking the .0005 seconds it takes to type and spell PROPERLY and professionally is too much trouble and it is "just a message board.( just so you know your not supposed to capitalize words in the middle of a sentence like PROPERLY)

" The "grow up" thing is a petty imbecile non-sequitur, considering my posts actually sound like I am older than a 5th grader. ( so how much older are you exactly than the 5th grade.......... oh another thing, using big words doesnt make you look any smarter, fyi)

And my name is Epimetheus. I know it is hard to read a name from greek mythology( i know the name and i know how to spell it, me spelling it wrong is what made if funny)

have a blessed day.

X
Click to expand...
 
Capitolizing an entire word in the middle of the sentance is shorthand (read: lazy) for italicizing it. For emphasis.

"Big words" as you so put it- if you think non-sequitur is a big word- doesn't make one more intelligent? Interesting. Most anthropologists will argue that point with you. You see, they seem to think that it is language that forms thought. The more words you know, the more concepts you understand, and that means a broader understanding of the world. To me that means intelligence, I suppose the definition of intelligence to you is "If you don't agree with me you are a retard and need to grow up."

Here is some reading material in case you think I am talking out my ass-
http://cogprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/view/subjects/ling-learn.html
 
That's pretty impressive for an ectomorph to get to 260pounds what size are your wrists how tall are you and what the hell do you eat ?
 
epimetheus, truce........ i never said you were intellegent, and i agree that using a wider vocabulary is more intellegent. but its a chatboard, i dont come here to expand my vocab, i just kinda thought everything here was supposed to be easy, almost layman's terms. no words that you have used i didnt understand. i type in a hurry becuase i have limited time on the net, so i dont try to be grammaticly correct or safisticated with the old speech. thats all. i know that about italicizing words as well, but that function is available when posting. and in good sport since you corrected me, i couldnt help but to point it out.:D

it was fun debating you, i didnt take it serious, so i hope you didnt either. but just for the record, i didnt jump down you throat becuase you dont belive the same as me( heck my training partner doesnt either) but you just jumped down my throat when i wasnt even addresing you, if i took it wrong then im sorry, but thats why i went off. so im sorry, but i admit i love arguing.

yeo...... wrist size is 6.75. Thats mean i am not that stong, im fairly strong, but when i go heavy it kills my joints. but i still push myself that way, i just mix it up with some higher reps as well. it produces significant hypertrophy. Plus as an added bonus i get a good strength carryover. offseason, i train with the WSB powerlifting style. but as for what i eat. a lot of everything. i try not to eat ground beef, chuck, or round. they have the most protein but they have a good but of fat so i eat ground turkey. it has less fat that ground beef, but more than fat than chiken. but it has more protein than chicken. ofseason i eat 2-3 lbs per day with 2 shakes. contest 1 lb per day and 1 shake. eat a salad everyday, and a ton of carbs off season from potatoes, pasta, rice. basically this. what you eat offseason compared to what i eat when cutting is the same thing. just less of the same thing.

thats what worked, and is still working. i hope this helps.

X
 
Exodus said:
epimetheus, truce........ i never said you were intellegent, and i agree that using a wider vocabulary is more intellegent. but its a chatboard, i dont come here to expand my vocab, i just kinda thought everything here was supposed to be easy, almost layman's terms. no words that you have used i didnt understand. i type in a hurry becuase i have limited time on the net, so i dont try to be grammaticly correct or safisticated with the old speech. thats all. i know that about italicizing words as well, but that function is available when posting. and in good sport since you corrected me, i couldnt help but to point it out.:D

it was fun debating you, i didnt take it serious, so i hope you didnt either. but just for the record, i didnt jump down you throat becuase you dont belive the same as me( heck my training partner doesnt either) but you just jumped down my throat when i wasnt even addresing you, if i took it wrong then im sorry, but thats why i went off. so im sorry, but i admit i love arguing.
X
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No problem. I love the occasional "debate with spice" as well. I didn't get mad either, and I do admit I enjoyed the exchange.

I didn't mean my first post to sound so harsh, so I appologise for that. It should have been a bit more tactful.

Good luck with your upcoming competition!
 
"Big words" as you so put it- if you think non-sequitur is
a big word- doesn't make one more intelligent?
Interesting. Most anthropologists will argue that point
with you. You see, they seem to think that it is language
that forms thought. The more words you know, the more
concepts you understand, and that means a broader
understanding of the world. To me that means
intelligence, I suppose the definition of intelligence to
you is "If you don't agree with me you are a retard and
need to grow up."
Click to expand...
I was just going to say what a waste of board space this was, but now I'm going to be hypocritical and join the tangent just to say one quick thing. Epimetheus, it seems your theory of a sparkling vocabulary goes against what the greatest post-socratic thinkers as well as the founders of Eastern philosophy have told us. What you're describing is sophistic. I can't stand people that have to articulate everything with colorful words. To me, they are simply clouding their waters to make them appear deep. If you have immersed yourself in a world of(true) knowledge long enough, you begin to learn the elementary concept that the people who talk the most typically have the least to say. The one's with the more colorful vocabularies tend to be making up for a lack of content. The best teachers I have ever had, as well as the greatest, spiritually insightful people I have encountered have very little to say. Anwyay, just had to say that:)
 
Thanks exodus, that's gave me some inspiration to think if you can do it then there's no reason that I can't. Eating for me is the hardest part, I struggle to eat enough. I can get on average 200g of protein a day but I can't seem to eat enough carbs, I know this is something I need to sort out how many grams of carbs do you think I should be eating ?
 
Thaibox said:

*bunch of big words I didn't understand*
Click to expand...

Me agree, Me no use big words no more. Me be real smawt, K!


I mean, using big words like Non-Sequitur, imbecile, hyperbole and the other two "big" words I used just hides my obvious stupidity and lack of anything worthwhile to talk about. I mean, I obviously just spend my time in front of thesauri, reading other words to replace simple words making myself look smarter, I know nothing of current events, nothing of history, philosophy, psychology, bodybuilding, nutrition, astronomy, physics, debate, etc etc. I am obviously compensating for the fact that I am really a dumb shallow idiot. I never read books, I watch TV and play video games and don't even work out. I really am clueless to the rest of the interenet as well. I had a friend do something called bookmark this web page and It takes me 5 hours to type up a post- looking up all those words takes forever.

I will make sure I don't talk so high and mighty- I mean I wouldn't want a bunch of people on the internet thinking I am really a stupid person.

My theory as you so put it Thaiboxer? What theory is that? That I should say- What I said earlier was a figure of speech in which I exaggerated for a bit of emphasis and effect OR What I said was a hyperbole. Hmm, I guess knowing that there is a word for a concept or learning the concept by discovering the word wouldn't be learning something and becoming more intelligent. It is just needless sophism, pompous pedantism covering up any real lack of education they might have. I mean, why should I use the term Non-sequitur? Sheesh, I should just say "what you said does not logically follow what preceded it" right? I mean vocabulary is overrated. You yourself should have gotten across your points without all those big words. You just confuse the issue.

Well, so that I may garner some respect from you, I will just not say anything. I mean, you obviously don't have much to say with 2729 posts or anything, so that must mean you are very wise.
 
Thaibox said:

*snip* founders of Eastern philosophy have told us. What you're describing is sophistic. I can't stand people that have to articulate everything with colorful words. To me, they are simply clouding their waters to make them appear deep.
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO- Yeah, those Eastern Philosophers are clear and concise, making the most sense of things without any clouds or colorful words. (snicker)
 
epimetheus said:


....Congradulations on your marriage.
Click to expand...


should be: congratulations


epimetheus said:


Yes, it is apparent that I am so immature, my posts are retarted...

Click to expand...


should be: retarded



epimetheus said:
Capitolizing an entire word in the middle of the sentance is shorthand (read: lazy) for italicizing it. For emphasis.
Click to expand...

should be: capitalizing, and SENTENCE...

These are just the most obvious mistakes that struck me. I find it funny how you find a way to belittle another person's intelligence when you don't have much to show yourself. Get off your fucking soap box.

Oh, and as to the original topic. Yeo, I think first and foremost you need to look at your diet. You don't necessarily have to be eating like a pig, but you need to be eating higher than your maintenance cals consistently, every day.
 
ExtermiN8r said:

I find it funny how you find a way to belittle another person's intelligence when you don't have much to show yourself. Get off your fucking soap box.
Click to expand...

Oh boy the spelling nazi's have arrived. Did ya notice the only word I corrected on his spelling was my name? The name that is by my every post? Good!

Did you notice that before Thaibox restarted this thread we had made up? Good!

Yes, I must be on a soapbox thinking I am sooo much smarter than everybody because I insult a person that is too lazy to capitalize AFTER he had already attacked me for a pretty benign post. (the only thing I suggested was that he might be seen as a tool for his insulting post) I must be a real pretensious prick for obviously using bigger words than necessary and thinking of myself as being somewhat educated.

I mean, even writers make spelling and grammar errors, and they write for a living. Does that make them stupid? No, not proof-reading makes them LAZY. There is a difference. I suppose it may be too subtle of a difference for you to pick up on though, since your only argument against a persons intelligence is his/her spelling skills.
 
epimetheus said:


... and then you tell me that taking the .0005 seconds it takes to type and spell PROPERLY and professionally is too much trouble and it is "just a message board."
Click to expand...

Now what was that you were saying? :rolleyes: Seems that proper spelling amd grammar is a bigger deal to you than you claim.
 
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