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genezapharmateuticals
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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsRESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic

Fructose, Dairy and SUgar substitutes.....

JKurz1 said:
wonder why everyone is so against fruit.........or is it you just don't really care for the taste?

Fructose should be avoided at all costs due to the fact that as stated above it can only go two places. 1) converted to liver glycogen, or 2) converted to triglycerides...fat!. The conversion to liver glycogen is an enzyme driven process and you're limited to about 50 grams a day. I avoid it during bulking also since it contributes to getting fatter.

I avoid milk during diets and bulking. I'd rather eat my calories.

I use splenda, equal, and the rest of them. Who knows on that? It doesn't have any cals so I'll use it until I find out I'm going to die from it.
 
JKurz1 said:
3 things in my current diet that I've heard and read I should try to eliminate. DO you guys consume any of these products whether bulking or cutting?

Also, fats. I'm amazed how many go low fat 99% of the time....thoughts? Theories?

All 3 should be eliminated:

Fructose - fills up your liver first and is 4x more likely to be stored as fat then regular glucose (positive=helps T4->T3 conversion and lepit levels)
Dairy - speaks for itself, stay away from the sugars; plus, most people are allergic to dairy
Sugars - again, common sense, they are out
Sugar Substitutes - Splenda is fine to use, it's made from sugar by chlorinating sucrose.

Mr.X
 
Whatever thats just what my trainer and a few others told me. Why do bodybuilders take in fats on contest day to fill out more then. Also why did Kingwhinny say if he looks flat he'll eat a steak. I was referring to red meat since thats the only fat I take in, and yes it was me that was only getting like 10g's a day and since the red meats hit me i look double the muscularity size imo.
 
Mr.X said:
Sugar Substitutes - Splenda is fine to use, it's made from sugar by chlorinating sucrose. Mr.X

It doesnt matter how they make it. It is still a Chlorocarbon and in the same family as other Carcinogenic chlorocarbons which makes me think it could have potenial risks (although nothing proven yet). Note that DDT is extremely dangerous and is also a chlorocarbon.
 
sprinter86 said:
It doesnt matter how they make it. It is still a Chlorocarbon and in the same family as other Carcinogenic chlorocarbons which makes me think it could have potenial risks (although nothing proven yet). Note that DDT is extremely dangerous and is also a chlorocarbon.

the word Chlorocarbon doesn't spell any risk, I don't see how you deduct the ludicrous believe that it's carcinogenic.

"It's been approved by the FDA after a 20-year study that found the sweet alternative safe for everyone including pregnant women and diabetics." - AMA

there have been over 1000 studies on it's safety, so spreading nonsense rumors about the product is false and unprovoked

Mr.X
 
from another board:

avoiding fruit is a bad idea because:

1) fruits are calorically sparse & nutritionally dense. not mentally dense like folks who tell others to avoid them.
2) fruits are an effective default fiber & water source. you will shit better & function better.
3) fruits have small amounts of fructose per serving (4-7g). this is perfect for preserving liver glycogen & indirectly, skeletal muscle glycogen status. muscle glycogen is better replenished when small amounts of fructose are present in the postW mix.
4) a liver lacking glyco-replenishment = multiple catabolic signalling cascades = compromised gains in skeletal muscle. fructose facilitates "fed state" signals to the brain. too complex to get into right now, but this is a good thing.
5) fruits contain system & recovery-enhancing phytonutrients & antioxidant factors not present in any other food species.
6) there is not a solitary shred of science indicating ill effects on health, body composition, or physical performance as a result of eating fruit. some of the leanest, longest-living populations on the planet earth eat fruit daily.
7) it would take the consumption of a truck bed of fruits to ingest amounts of fructose associated with negative metabolic effects seen in forcefed rats. the funny thing about this is, fruit is one of the rare foods in nature that you can actually fill yourself up with, & still not tip the balance of risk versus benefit.
8) fruit avoidance just plain makes no damn sense whatsoever -- but then again, how many idiotic bodybuilding myths do you know of that do?
 
you guys are being way too anal. Eating a piece of fruit isn't gonna hurt you. I mean you taking in a bunch of fat as is so who cares if 20gs are stored as fat? Its 20 friggin grams.
 
1) fruits are calorically sparse & nutritionally dense. not mentally dense like folks who tell others to avoid them.
that's not true at all - 1 apple has 125 calories (large) and 32 grams of carbs from fructose

2) fruits are an effective default fiber & water source. you will shit better & function better.
true to a small degree, you can get natural fiber from husk without all the empty calories

3) fruits have small amounts of fructose per serving (4-7g). this is perfect for preserving liver glycogen & indirectly, skeletal muscle glycogen status. muscle glycogen is better replenished when small amounts of fructose are present in the postW mix.
yes, 1 strawberry, eat 10 of them and it adds up. Fructose does NOT "preserve" liver glycogen, for it actually is STORED as liver glycogen. Whoever wrote this has NO CLUE of the difference between a fed-state and a ketogenic state. In a fed state, which most people are in, fructose will not help you it will only hinder your progress.

4) a liver lacking glyco-replenishment = multiple catabolic signalling cascades = compromised gains in skeletal muscle. fructose facilitates "fed state" signals to the brain. too complex to get into right now, but this is a good thing.
yes it's too complex because it's stated WRONG. The liver needs liver glycogen to help T4->T3 conversion and leptin (hormone that tells you that you're full) levels; however, it only needs 50 grams of glucose to do the job - while only holding 150grams total. As fructose is 4x more likely to be store as fat and in the liver, you will see great fat gains by stuffing your face with fruit

5) fruits contain system & recovery-enhancing phytonutrients & antioxidant factors not present in any other food species.
that's idiotic; vitamin C and iron are what's most commonly contributed to fruits ability to help you recover - can be purchased for $4.99 at a local supermarket. Even then, 10 grams of glutamine will do 10x more for recovery then Vit C.

6) there is not a solitary shred of science indicating ill effects on health, body composition, or physical performance as a result of eating fruit. some of the leanest, longest-living populations on the planet earth eat fruit daily.
and? no one said it has a "bad" effect, what is being said is that for a bodybuilder to eat calories that are empty and cause 4x greater possible of fat gain is ludicrous

7) it would take the consumption of a truck bed of fruits to ingest amounts of fructose associated with negative metabolic effects seen in forcefed rats. the funny thing about this is, fruit is one of the rare foods in nature that you can actually fill yourself up with, & still not tip the balance of risk versus benefit.
eat 10 apples a day, 1200 calories from fruit, 320 grams of carbs (fructose) with your regular diet and talk to me in 4 weeks when you're 10 lbs. fatter

8) fruit avoidance just plain makes no damn sense whatsoever -- but then again, how many idiotic bodybuilding myths do you know of that do?
yes, this guy is a true genius in his own mind

No one said fruit will kill you; what's being said is it does not have nutritional benefit when used in conjunction to a low-GI/high-protein/moderate fat/high-nutrition (supplementation) bodybuilder/fitness diet. That's the topic at hand. Why eat something that will make you gain bodyfat at a higher rate then other carbs in your diet. There is absolutely to evidence that one cannot live without fruit. In fact, I know many people that do it all the time - i.e. me as an example. Stuff your face with fruits and you'll see the real "gain" you will have from it.

Think of it this way, why are people screaming that High-fructose corn syrup is the major cause of US obesity - read the name of the product and that's all you need.

Mr.X
 
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