ECA vs. Clen

[Genie]

I am about to start a fat-burner and am trying to decide between using ECA or Clen. Based on what I have read from previous posts, ECA seems to work well for almost everyone. However I have been reading alot about Clen and its effectivness.

Can anyone tell me how the two compare? I am at about 26% bf right now and woudl like to drop that to at least 20% I lift three times a week, do 45 min. of cardio three times a week.

I have learned so much from this board thus far and would love to hear some opinions on the two. I am currently using CCK. Thanks!

 

[jbauer]

I dont know anything abut clen but i take an ECA stack 30 minutes before every workout and it seems to give me the extra boost during my workout to get in that last push. I dont know if that helps any?!

 

[Ulter]

I would recommend you use something less harsh on your CNS. Like NYC. You need to do a lot of cardio and I don't think that's a good idea while using ECA. Clen is out of your league right now. You should be using clen when you GET to 18-20% and not getting to 20%.
You can get NYC here.

NYC

 

[Genie]

I would recommend you use something less harsh on your CNS. Like NYC. You need to do a lot of cardio and I don't think that's a good idea while using ECA. Clen is out of your league right now. You should be using clen when you GET to 18-20% and not getting to 20%.
You can get NYC here.

NYC

Thanks - I will definately look into that. After reading more, I agree - Clen is out of my league right now. Have you used NYC? Did you like it? One more question, I used to do 4-5 days of cardio with low, machine weights afterwards. Now I lift free weights, consistently increasing my goals, three days and only three days of cardio. Do you think I shoull go back to doing more cardio?

 

[MS]

I gotta agree with Ulter. You shouldn't be using ECA or clen until you've plateaued with your fatloss from exercising and dieting cleanly (which may be never). Save the heavy artillery for when you really need it. I also prefer NYC. It doesn't mess with my heart or head so much, and I find it's a better appetite supressant. Is CCK=CKD?? If you're doing any kind of cyclical ketogenic diet, you should really REALLY get your insulin sensitivity checked. ECA, clen and high carb refeeds will all work against you if your glucose tolerance is already impaired........

 

[MS]

Ideally it would be a glucose challenge (as opposed to a single fasting glucose test). I only mentioned it because a lot of people think CKD is optimal for fatloss, but the reality is that it is a poor choice for overweight people or people with glucose sensitivty probs. Short term high fat diets actually increase insulin resistance, and then you flood your body with lots of glucose that your body can't absorb, sending your blood glucose and insulin levels sky high and inhibiting fat loss further. ECA exacerbates this more. Even folks with "good' insulin sensitivity should take glucose disposal agents during their carb up to help overcome the slight increase in insulin resistance seen with short term high fat diets.

Whaddya want to know about NYC??? I'm sure Ulter will tell you all you want to know, and more

 

[takniteasy]

I am using NYC with my ox cycle now. It helps with appetite suppression, the Yoh is reportedly effective on burning (reducing?) estrogenic fat and it does not have the strong stimulatory effects as the ECAs have. That is the main reason I take it. ECA has me zinging and jittery, while the NYC gives energy but no jittery feelings.

 

[MS]

That may be true, though it doesn't really matter. They are still short term high fat diets, and as long as they are hypocaloric, they will still lose weight provided they are not insulin resistant thereby negating the benefits of the carb up. You don't need to o into ketosis to mess up your insulin sensitivity!
This is essentially what I'm doing at the moment. 2 days of low cal, low carb and high fat without reaching ketosis, followed by a high calorie, high carb day. I have good insulin sensitivity and it's working really wel, but I'm also using chromium and ALA on my carb days. I would not recommend it for someone without good sensitivity.

 

[MS]

My exact training and diet look like this:

Monday morning through Tuesday night I consume 100g protein and 100g EFAs, plus a few cups of fibrous veggies. This is around 50% of my maintanance requirements. I do cardio in am and pm both days. Wednesday morning I do another cardio session, then begin a 12 hour high carb refeed with ~450-500g carbs, 150g protein and as little fat as I can. I weight train wednesday afternoon and thursday morning. Thursday am through friday pm I go back to 100g protein and 100g EFAs, with cardio in am and pm. Saturday morning is cardio followed by two days of high carb maintenance eating (around 350g carbs, 200 protein and minimal fat). I weight train Saturday and Sunday afternoon (no cardio). I'm losing 1.5 to 2 pounds per week and still gaining in all my lifts. This is fun I wonder how long it will continue to work.........

 

[MS]

This is not the holy grail of dieting (I wish it were, I would write a book and be rich and famous). This is just a new twist that is working very well for me. Individual mileage will vary.


I clock my intake at around 1300 on non carb days. There's a few carbs from my protein, plus some PB. The rest of the fat comes from a 50:50 blend of safflower and flax seed oil. The veggies are basically zero absorbable carbs......all fiber. I'm taking the usual multis, plus creatine, ALA and chromium on carb days. NO NYC on carb days. I'm 5'5". LBM???? depends on when you weigh me I'm up to 2-3kg heavier at the end of a two day carb up than I am on the Saturday morning before my carb up. There's a large shift in fluid and glycogen over those 3 days. So right now I'm between 150 and 156 depending on which day it is, and %bf is ~14% (and dropping). This is just a rough guesstimate. I've set my calories based on by best guess at my ACTIVE metabolic rate, rather than BMR or RMR. I think AMR is particularly important for the high carb days since ya aim to eat at least 10-20% above maintanance on the wednesday, and at last maintenance on the weekends. Eating below actual maintenance on these days may not work as well, since this suppossedly works because the high carb days signal your body that it's not starving and that it's well fed so there's no reason to slow down or hold onto fat. This is a truly bipolar eating regime, but i'ts fun because you're never more than 2 days away from your next carb feed! Except for the end of the second low carb day, my energy levels seem to be very high compared to other diets I have tried. But I'm waiting to see just how lean I can get using this method. I suspect my body may eventually twig that it's not getting enough total calories to be happy. I'll let ya know....