casualbb..

[Debaser]

Out of curiousity, what causes muscle soreness? I am curious because of HST's "training through soreness" based on the fact that a muscle is healed after 48 hours. I'm just wondering why your muscles are generally sore for longer than that, if they've recovered.

 

[FatRat]

a muscle is healed after 48 hours

I really dont understand how such a sweeping statement can be made with sooooo many variables that will affect recovery time. Perhaps it needs to be read in context?

 

[casualbb]

You know, I really have no idea.

This is all Bryan Haycock said about it.

Getting sore from training is like sweating from training. It often accompanies training but can't effectively be used as a measure of the effectiveness of the workout. They are related, but not "correlated".

This does not stop people from using DOMS as their measure of the effectiveness of the workout. This is not a bad thing! Nor is looking for sweat a bad thing to do when trying to tell if you're working hard enough.

Soreness is one of those things I never tried too hard to understand and end up just ignoring. When you think about it, how important can soreness be if a simple act such as stretching or performing a set with weights will eliminate it? Obviously, then, soreness isn't really a good indicator of the state of a muscle. I really would like to know what causes it, though. Anybody got any ideas?

-casualbb

 

[DrBones]

I thought doms was a result of excess lactic acid buildup and microtrauma to muscle fibres...

 

[louden_swain]

I thought doms was a result of excess lactic acid buildup and microtrauma to muscle fibres...

exactly!

probably some irritated nerve endings from stimulation.

 

[bigstve12]

You guys are right, i just studied this shit in biochem couple semesters back. The lactic acid eventually gets sent back thru the krebs cycle to produce ATP to help heal the microtrauma. So when the Lactic acid (soreness) is gone, the muscle is healed. THings like diet, extent of damage, hydration all can effect the duration the lactic acid hangs around. I once read an article that said to drink baking soda to make the body pH more basic. I think that would just totally fuck my stomach and i have no plans on trying it. If anyone wants to, let me know how it goes

 

[collegiateLifter]

dont drink baking soda... i recall it'll make you puke. Also its not lactic acid 'hanging around' as i understand it, but in part the lactic acid causes like calcium ions to leach and this whole spiel causes micro trauma etc. The lactic acid is long gone after a day, while the sorness may still be there. Its possible i'm wrong but...

 

[Zander1983]

Some extracts from http://www.frsa.com/doms.html:

Many theories exist to explain the occurrence of DOMS. Some of the more plausible of theories include:
- The torn tissue theory, which states that microscopic tears in the muscles themselves are the cause of DOMS.
- The connective tissue theory advocates that damage to the connective tissue attached to muscle is the cause of DOMS.
- The Inflammation theory states that the pain felt during DOMS is simply a by-product of our bodies attempt to fix the damage that has been caused by a workout.

DOMS is not caused by lactic acid in the muscle. Lactic acid is a by product of burning sugars for energy duiring intense physical exercise. Within an hour after exercise, most, if not all, of the lactic acid produced in the muscles is removed and degraded. This misconception of lactic acid and DOMS probably got started by that fact that lactic acid is in fact produced in the muscles during intense exercise and does cause muscles to fatigue. The key point to remember is that muscle fatigue and DOMS are two different processes and just because they sometimes seem to go hand in hand, they are not related in any way.

 

[bigstve12]

I think my prof's mechanism of action is the inflamation theory that Zander is talking about. I could've sworn that my teach stated it like i did in the arlier post, maybe i got it wrong.

 

[casualbb]

For me personally, I find that DOMS correlates with failure training. So far this HST cycle I hadn't hit failure once. Been making very very solid gains, so I must've been ripping my muscles. Just last workout, on the 10RM one, I had issues squeezing out the last rep on dips. Weirdly enough, that's the first time I've really been sore this cycle. Anybody else notice this, that they really only get sore with failure training?

-casualbb