Big Spaced Out Meals

[ExtraMile]

on weekends I always loose my appetite throughout the day, I think this is because I dont have set meal times when Im not at school so even if I just have a small meal Im not hungry for hours.

Last couple of days I have just had a big breakfast (~1000kcal) and 2 other big meals around 1000kcal then a snack before bed which was something like handful of nuts, glass of milk and some cottage cheese. So I still got in ~3000kcal which is my target at the moment.

Is there a downside to eating like this?

 

[gstacker]

its not the best but at least ur getting all ur calories....you new that already tho

 

[ExtraMile]

its not the best but at least ur getting all ur calories....you new that already tho

what are the disadvantages?

 

[gstacker]

Well Ima jus guess at it that if u eat three big meals u will be over eating each time, maybe causing a lil fat storage u may burn it off up untill the next meal and then do it again... Slowing down ur matabolisim, sound logical or am I talking out my ass lol

 

[rikishi]

It's bad for a lot of reasons.

1. Your metabolism slows down

2. There is more food for your body to process and burn all at once, so your body is more likely to not use all of it and will store more fat

3. Your body produces a lot more insulin all at once which will have negative impacts on fat storage

 

[joe d]

drink milk between

 

[*ebony*]

cals in/cals out=weight loss/weight gain

different meal splits have no effect on metabolic rate or fat metabolism.

 

[*ebony*]

the most important thing for muscle gain is your post workout meal.

there are studies to support my statement of course.


anyways dont worry about going catabolic cause it wont happen. i think it takes like 12 hours to digest a meal while slowly releasing amino acids into blood stream.

just eat when your hungry. eating smalls meals throughout the day to ‘stokes the metabolic fire’ is not necessarily true according to the studies iv read. or that it is the ideal way to eat in order to control cravings and blood sugars, ect. i think the 3 meals a day and 6-8 meals a day and most advice that centers around it comes from research concerning TEF (Thermic Effect of Food).

 

[joe d]

eating 3 huge meals vs splitting the food into 6 meals makes a huge difference in your results in fat and muscle loss and gain. its also much healthier. this is simple to understand.

 

[rikishi]

eating 3 huge meals vs splitting the food into 6 meals makes a huge difference in your results in fat and muscle loss and gain. its also much healthier. this is simple to understand.

Exactly.

 

[*ebony*]

eating 3 huge meals vs splitting the food into 6 meals makes a huge difference in your results in fat and muscle loss and gain. its also much healthier. this is simple to understand.

yeah i understand it.

i'm not bashing it, or promoting the 3 meals a day. i just think that it doesn't matter, as long as the post workout meal(most important meal) is a good one. as i understand it, your substrate metabolism is largely dictated by the meal you just ate and the macronutrient composition of your diet, the way you split your meals have no consequence for the amount of fat oxidized at the end of the day.

there are many studies to contradict everything you just said, as i'm sure there are some that agree with it. i've also tried both ways of eating with no sig difference. i think the best thing is to go with what is most convenient to someone. macros and cals in/cals out=your results.

 

[*ebony*]

lol, its not my theory.

as for muscle preservation/muscle loss. i don't think EM will go catabolic at all or cortisol will elevate and body starts burning muscle tissue, ect. the two main issues i suppose would be glycogen and cortisol. glycogen isn't a problem here. and from studies on cortisol, it shows that various meal frequencies and short term fasting has very little influence over it. Recent studies found no significant change in the rhythm of cortisol secretion, regardless of meal patterns, nor even after like a whole day of fasting. there are studies that show many health benefits derived from 1-3 meals a day. i'm was just reading a study on energy balance and meal frequency that favored less meals. interesting stuff.

like i said i'm not for or agianst anything here. one should do what is most convient. the body is so smart, it adapts amazingly well.

anyways i don't think 3 meals a day is a good idea for big peeps like you. or for athletes/bodybuilder/ectomorphs that need a ridiculous amount of cals just to maintain their weight. breaking meals into 6 meals is a good idea. expanding the stomach by eating too much is not cool.

 

[*ebony*]

joe did you relpy, concerning muscle preservation?
your reply got deleted? or did i imagine it?

maybe i'm going loco.

 

[joe d]

you fealing alright? i didnt reply.....

jk. my reply didnt make sence so i deleted. in a nut shell we disagree on whats in em's best interest with his goals, and thats cool. i was starting to debate trying to understand how this 3 meals could work in this situation but im getting tired so i just didnt reply again yet.

 

[*ebony*]

you fealing alright? i didnt reply.....

jk. my reply didnt make sence so i deleted. in a nut shell we disagree on whats in em's best interest with his goals, and thats cool. i was starting to debate trying to understand how this 3 meals could work in this situation but im getting tired so i just didnt reply again yet.

hahahaha! yesssss, i'm not going crazzzzyyy! i was just telling my self to go to bed, get some zzzz and stop imagining stuff. thank god i'm still mentally stable....i think.lol

 

[ExtraMile]

ebony you think it wont make a differance? joe you think it is a big differance?

ebony, post workout I go home and eat a meal, I dont do the whole pwo shake thing I just eat and the meal that I eat is usually 800-1500kcal, 50-100g protein 80-120g carbs, 0-30g fat.

joe what was the reason you suggested drinking milk between? was this to keep my metabolism up?

for my breakfast I usuaully have this:
5 whole eggs
2.5oz oats + 200ml whole milk + blueberries or dried fruit
400ml whole milk + 2g fishoil

how can I reduce this to less cals but still get the right amount of protein/carbs/fat in? its around 65g protein, 90g carbs and 45g fat. yes the fat content is a bit high but throughout the day I dont eat much fat so its not really too bad I dont think. is 100g of fat per day excessive for the 180lber?

 

[gstacker]

I like my theroy and the inslin spike that someone posted also... U eat a huge meal get a spike an bla big fat absorbtion then ur body trys to burn it off.... Bad for the motabolism

Ebony hi.... Post up one of your favorite articles you have read please, I've never once seen one before saying anything like that and I'm very curious of the study.

 

[joe d]

em if you know what you need in macros and break that into 6 or 7 meals you will be all set. that lack of balance is hindering your progress. diet is the worst thing to get lazy about even for 1 day. it will have to biggest impact.

 

[pvcpeterson]

I read a few recent studies about the effect of fasting on body composition. (I have a degree in psychology, and am a science nerd, so I'm ALWAYS reading studies...)

The latest info is that fasting, eating less meals per day (1-2) and restricting calories, as a whole makes insulin response more even/efficient OVER TIME (not instantaneously, horrible idea to go without any food if you're diabetic) AND lowers the rates of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and certain other medical issues by as much as 40%.

Now, these studies are new, and should be widely replicated to be considered reliable. Also, they are a combination of human and animal studies (chimps, mice) so results cannot necessarily be translated as being 100% reliable in all humans.

What does this info have to do with bodybuilding? Well among strength trainers/bodybuilders there are some proponents of a method of weight gain/maintenance called Intermittent Fasting. Those who adhere to this protocol will either do a 24 hour fast once or twice per week, OR, cram a few huge meals into an 8 hour feeding window and not eat for the next 16 hours. The belief (and there is some research to support this approach,) is that by fasting, your body develops a much greater ability to utilize your pre and post workout nutrients, and fat storage becomes greatly limited.

One fellow who applies this method is Martin Berkhan, his website is:

http: //leangains. blogspot. com/

(sorry, I am a new member so I can't correctly post a web address yet, per the site rules)

So for the OP, there is ONE point of view supporting the notion that it is OK to eat a few big meals, and still lose fat/gain muscle.

I tried this method for only 3 days, so I cannot comment on it's long-term benefits. For me, it wasn't preferable, because I started getting "brain fog" when I went for 16 hours without eating. This effect may go away after a week or two, but I found it to annoying to just "push through". Also, tring to cram in 1000+ calories per meal made me feel bloated and uncomfortable.

I was drawn to this method because I was just sick of planning my entire day around eating every 2.5 hours.

Eventually, through trial and error, I have developed an eating plan which is as follows:

Eat 4 big meals throughout the day
Have a post workout meal
Have some extra protein before bed (protein drink or cottage cheese)

As long as I do this, I feel great...not bloated, and I don't have to plan my entire day around my food (previously I was eating 8 times a day)

As a side note to the OP, I'm sure you know this, but the only way to know if a particular nutrition plan will work for you is by just doing it-- I know you asked specifically if eating less meals is BAD...many people would disagree that eating less frequently is bad. But there are those who must eat often to feel their best.

I don't think you'll ruin your progress by eating less frequently, but that is only my opinion, and others have their own.

 

[*ebony*]

below are some studies


http://www.uwlax.edu/URC/JUR-online/PDF/2003/goodman-larson-et-al.pdf

The results of the present study fail to support the hypothesis that participants with high daily meal frequency have significantly higher resting metabolic rates as compared to participants with a low daily meal frequency. Meal frequency does not appear to effect metabolic rate. Our study coincides with similar research that has studied the effect of meal frequency and RMR. A similar study found no significant difference in total daily thematic effect of food among frequent and infrequent feeders on isocaloric diets (Kinabo, & Durnin, 1990). Other studies pertaining to RMR and meal frequency of frequent and infrequent eaters have not shown differences in RMRs of healthy (Garrow, Durrant, Mann, Stalley, & Warwick, 1978; Taylor & Garrow, 2001), diabetic (Arnold, Mann, & Ball, 1997), and hyperlipidemic individuals (Arnold, Ball, & Mann, 1994). Despite the inability to find an association between meal frequency and resting metabolic rate, it may still be beneficial for nutrition and fitness professionals to continue to recommend eating small meals throughout the day for weight management purposes. Smaller meals throughout the day may prevent an individual from gorging, thus overeating, during the day, which could ultimately impact body mass favorably.

DUO: The Meal Frequency Project

Conclusion: In this study, three meals per day resulted in larger muscle- and strength gain from strength training when in positive energy balance than six meals per day over a period of twelve weeks. The reason why we draw opposite conclusions from short-term studies needs further investigation. More long-term studies are needed to determine the optimal meal frequency for ultimate gain in LBM from strength training, and larger groups may be needed to determine an effect of meal frequency on fat mass. The changes in fat mass had large variations within and between the groups, making it difficult to draw any conclusions.

CJO - Abstract - Increased meal frequency does not promote greater weight loss in subjects who were prescribed an 8-week equi-energetic energy-restricted diet

Meal frequency and energy balance

3 meals a day or 6 smaller meals? Experts weigh the pros and cons

Elsevier

USATODAY.com - Study: Fasting improves health as much as cutting calories

Obesity - Association of Eating Frequency with Body Fatness in Pre- and Postmenopausal Women

Fasting for Weight Loss, Increased Human Growth Hormone, Immunity, and Longevity - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

Impact of growth hormone receptor blockade on subs... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2009] - PubMed result

this study is ongoing but will be interesting to read results
Relation of Obesity With Frequency of Meals (MST 0557) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

 

[*ebony*]

some stuff on insulin

Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men -- Halberg et al. 99 (6): 2128 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake

Effects of Intermittent Fasting on Serum Lipid Levels, Coagulation Status and Plasma Homocysteine Levels



here are a few studies on weight loss, weight gain, longevity and disease on this website.
Studies Pertinent to Weight Gain or Muscle Building

 

[gstacker]

Interesting... To be honest I only read the first study so can only comment on that... Rmr is what they call it? Never even new bout that or how they can Check it acuratly but asuming they can there is much more to it than that an just fat loss... A steady supply of protein thought the day to build muscle, and smaller meals means less slin spikes witch means less fat gain... There comparing the average Joe who prolly doesn't do deads n squats like em does... That study IMO was a lil biased and didn't even go long Enough to see true end results in fat loss... Just a short quick study on rmr witch really means shit compared to end result...

Thanks for taking the time ebony for finding those articles n posting them... I will read the others too when I get time

 

[*ebony*]

ebony you think it wont make a differance? joe you think it is a big differance?

ebony, post workout I go home and eat a meal, I dont do the whole pwo shake thing I just eat and the meal that I eat is usually 800-1500kcal, 50-100g protein 80-120g carbs, 0-30g fat.

joe what was the reason you suggested drinking milk between? was this to keep my metabolism up?

for my breakfast I usuaully have this:
5 whole eggs
2.5oz oats + 200ml whole milk + blueberries or dried fruit
400ml whole milk + 2g fishoil

pwo protein shake is important according to a lot of sources i've read. most recent Ori Hofmekler's author of warrior diet recommends only 15-30g(nothing huge) of whey idealy within 30 min pwo. of course he uses science to support logic of that. then you should have your meal sometime later.

i don't really like eating in the morning so i stopped. i don't break fast until the sometime in the afternoon if i get hungry.

i think its a good idea to take the fish oil before bed also.

Interesting... To be honest I only read the first study so can only comment on that... Rmr is what they call it? Never even new bout that or how they can Check it acuratly but asuming they can there is much more to it than that an just fat loss... A steady supply of protein thought the day to build muscle, and smaller meals means less slin spikes witch means less fat gain... There comparing the average Joe who prolly doesn't do deads n squats like em does... That study IMO was a lil biased and didn't even go long Enough to see true end results in fat loss... Just a short quick study on rmr witch really means shit compared to end result...

Thanks for taking the time ebony for finding those articles n posting them... I will read the others too when I get time

of course! i think the studies are super interesting. i was going to start posting them in that study thread i made anyways. there was more but i cant find them. read the other studies as well if you get time, they might answer some of your questions.

 

[ExtraMile]

pwo protein shake is important according to a lot of sources i've read. most recent Ori Hofmekler's author of warrior diet recommends only 15-30g(nothing huge) of whey idealy within 30 min pwo. of course he uses science to support logic of that. then you should have your meal sometime later.

i don't really like eating in the morning so i stopped. i don't break fast until the sometime in the afternoon if i get hungry.

i think its a good idea to take the fish oil before bed also.

well if I win this member of the year award then I will buy some whey, creatine and BCAA and try out the whole pwo thing see if it makes a differance!

I dont agree with waiting until the afternoon to have your first meal, unless you wake up practically in the afternoon like me, lol

yes I take fish oil, 6g per day and I have that in three 2g servings, one of which is before bed.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

EM just eat some fuckin food damnit!

 

[KQguy]

I have done the whole 6 meals per day thing for probably 6-8 years,because everyone said that is how you do it.Recently I read about the Warrior diet,and decided to give it a try.To my surprise,it works amazingly well!I eat 1 meal per day,and also 30g of protein post workout,that's it!It took 5 day's before I adjusted to the diet,but once I did,I feel great.I am losing fat,getting the best pumps in the gym I have ever had!When I am pumped,people in my gym think I look better than I ever have.I am more energetic during the day,and I don't feel fat and bloated like before,even though I am eating the same amount of calories as before.I am not trying to convince everyone to try a diet like this,but if you are tired of eating all day,and feel sluggis like I did,it's worth a try!

 

[*ebony*]

I have done the whole 6 meals per day thing for probably 6-8 years,because everyone said that is how you do it.Recently I read about the Warrior diet,and decided to give it a try.To my surprise,it works amazingly well!I eat 1 meal per day,and also 30g of protein post workout,that's it!It took 5 day's before I adjusted to the diet,but once I did,I feel great.I am losing fat,getting the best pumps in the gym I have ever had!When I am pumped,people in my gym think I look better than I ever have.I am more energetic during the day,and I don't feel fat and bloated like before,even though I am eating the same amount of calories as before.I am not trying to convince everyone to try a diet like this,but if you are tired of eating all day,and feel sluggis like I did,it's worth a try!

i'm also doing an altered form of the warrior diet. i eat a bit more than recommended throughout the day. and not totally as much at night as recommended. i think a bad thing about the diet is that the controlled binge will eventually expand the stomach. no need to create more room for food.

also i def feel you on the energy, less bloat, sluggish free. you should be as energetic as ever in the day time as long as your foods are not tryptophan-containing foods.

 

[KQguy]

also i def feel you on the energy, less bloat, sluggish free. you should be as energetic as ever in the day time as long as your foods are not tryptophan-containing foods.[/quote]
I think it helps to eat more calorie dense foods,so you don't have to eat so much volume of food.I am not following the warrior diet to a T,in fact I never even read the book.After doing some research,and talking on other boards,I pretty much figured out what it is all about.Most people seem to make their own version of it,you just have to play around with it,and see what works for you.People just have to get over the fear of losing muscle,they think if they miss 1 meal they will shrink,after being on the Warrior diet,you realise it just doesn't work that way.I know most people will look at a diet like this and think it's the worst idea ever(I thought the same thing the first time I read about it),you just have to try it to see what it's all about.

 

[ExtraMile]

im very interested in the warrior diet, and have read some stuff about it. Towards the summer I think Im gonna stop bulking and cut a bit, try and get to 14 or 15% bf. would people reccomend the warrior diet as a cutting diet? and how would my strength be? I need something relatively easy, as I have to eat around school and stuff so palumbo style diets would maybe hard as I cant cook at school and eating raw chicken (which I have been doing on and off for a year now) throguhout the school day already makes me gag so I need a change haha

my diet has been pretty bad since xmas eve and if dont know if its bloat or what btu I deff look liek im back up to 20%bf. Once I started eatin chocolate again I cant stop and I have real bad cravings, Im eatin so much of the stuff now

 

[gstacker]

im very interested in the warrior diet, and have read some stuff about it. Towards the summer I think Im gonna stop bulking and cut a bit, try and get to 14 or 15% bf. would people reccomend the warrior diet as a cutting diet? and how would my strength be? I need something relatively easy, as I have to eat around school and stuff so palumbo style diets would maybe hard as I cant cook at school and eating raw chicken (which I have been doing on and off for a year now) throguhout the school day already makes me gag so I need a change haha

my diet has been pretty bad since xmas eve and if dont know if its bloat or what btu I deff look liek im back up to 20%bf. Once I started eatin chocolate again I cant stop and I have real bad cravings, Im eatin so much of the stuff now

please tell me you haven't been eating RAW CHICKEN?

 

[ExtraMile]

please tell me you haven't been eating RAW CHICKEN?

oops, i meant cold chicken lol

 

[*ebony*]

im very interested in the warrior diet, and have read some stuff about it. Towards the summer I think Im gonna stop bulking and cut a bit, try and get to 14 or 15% bf. would people reccomend the warrior diet as a cutting diet? and how would my strength be? I need something relatively easy, as I have to eat around school and stuff so palumbo style diets would maybe hard as I cant cook at school and eating raw chicken (which I have been doing on and off for a year now) throguhout the school day already makes me gag so I need a change haha

my diet has been pretty bad since xmas eve and if dont know if its bloat or what btu I deff look liek im back up to 20%bf. Once I started eatin chocolate again I cant stop and I have real bad cravings, Im eatin so much of the stuff now

i'm glad its not RAW CHICKEN!!! yeah i think its a great diet for cutting and mass gain too. focusing on one goal of course yields better results. its really good if you don't want to obsess over food in the day, and it kills cravings and hunger pangs, incredible energy, good focus. i really dont think i lost any muscle

oh and my bench went up another 5 lbs!! thanx for the tips EM!!

 

[ExtraMile]

Lol no probs on the bench glad to hear it helped

could someone give me a quick rundown of the warrior diet without me having to read some long ass webpage on how it works and the creator and shit lolol

 

[*ebony*]

well the whole thing is just a theory in the end i guess. he talks a lot about Roman soldiers and gladiators and how they trained and ate and so on. its all about manipulating hormones. also he's big on anti estrogen and overall health.

here are some good notes on the book. the diet goes pretty much like i outlined it in my first post on that warrior diet thread.

what happens during a controlled fast?
1-detoxification
2-enzyme pool is reloaded (which accelerates fat burning and creates an anti-aging effect)
3-insulin drops and is stabilized (efficient metabolism of carbs and fats)
4-glucagon increases (a fat burning hormone)
5-growth hormone increases (tissue repair and fat burning)

under-eating properties
1-anti-aging - through nutrient loading
2-fat burning - through hormonal manipulation
3-destroying tumors and cancerous cells - through detoxification

under-eating phase
1- living foods: raw fruits, veggies, fresh juices
2- yogurt, kefir, whey

Raw nuts - not roasted

Vitamin and Mineral supplements important

Ginger - anti-inflammatory, thermogenic, digestive aid. Gingerol is active ingredient (antibiotic)
Chicory - (esculetin) - inhibit the oxidative degradation of DNA.
Glutamine - brain booster, taken on empty stomach, stress hormone blocker, anabolic process

Tyrosine + SAM-e: taken on empty stomach --> boost dopamine --> increase GH, keep T high

Anti-estrogen Foods
1-cruciferous vegetables
2-omega-3 oils
3-citrus fruits
4-onion
5-garlic
6-dairy products from grass-fed animals
7-chamomile

Whey protein - look for hormone free

Soy Protein
1-inhibit mineral and iodine absorption (impair thyroid)
2-estrogenic

Cruciferous Veggies
* Indole-3 carbinol bound to fiber. Must be cooked to be absorbed - detoxify estrogens, protect against cancer and fat loss.

Fat loss - always eat carbs as the last component of a meal

Stubborn Fat - lower ratio of beta to alpha receptors, high in estrogen receptors

Causes of Stubborn Fat
1-unhealthy diet
2-exposure to estrogens
3-aging
4-deficiencies in B vitamins, chromium, magnesium, zinc, omega-3 fats
5-protein deficiencies (need lysine to convert into L-carnitine to mobilize fat breakdown)

Prevent Stubborn Fat
1-avoid crash diets / weight fluctuations
2-avoid estrogenic food (soy, clover, licorice, omega-6 vegetable oils: canola, corn, safflower, soy)
3-eat organic to avoid petroleum based (estrogenic) pesticides.
4-avoid foods that smell like plastic. Minimize use of plastic for food storage.
5-minimize alcohol consumption (impairs liver's ability to breakdown and detoxify estrogen compounds)
6-control insulin (minimize carbs, only eat at end of meal, eat nuts/seeds instead of grains)
7-exercise

Remove Stubborn Fat
1-Consume estrogen inhibitors

* cruciferous vegetables (indoles)
* chamomile flower (flavone apigenin)
* passion flower (flavone chrysin) no longer believed to reduce estrogen (see Chrysin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
* bee propolis (galangin)
* citrus fruits (flavone naringenin)
* curry (curcumin)
* red grapes or wine (resveratol)
* omega 3 oils from fish, flax seeds, hemp seeds, milk fat (from grass-fed animals -CLA)

2-Liver Detoxifiers

* leafy greens
* cruciferous vegetables
* milk thistle
* dandelion root (start with small dose as it is a milk laxative)
* pygeum bark
* saw palmetto

3-Yohimbe Bark (**may** stimulate alpha receptors)

Foods that protect against radiation and environmental toxins
1- Sea Veggies (kelp)
2- Miso
3- Beet juice (detoxify liver and blood)
4- bee pollen (lecithin - protects nervous system)
5- high-sulfur protein containing foods (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower,kale, brussels sprouts, garlic, onions, eggs)
6- fiber: veggie,grain, legume, seed and fruit fibers
7- high chlorophyll foods - leafy green veggies, grass sprouts, parsley
8- herbs: siberian ginseng, astragalus, enchinacea, goldenseal

Plastic
* acid-based foods should never be stored in plastic containers, since acid is more reactive with plastic material.
* compounds in plastic called plasticizers can be estrogenic and carcinogenic (EX: bisphenol A)
* don't eat/store foods/liquids in soft "cloudy" plastic containers