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ALA bad for Bodybuilding???
- Thread starter Iron Gamer
- Start date
macrophage69alpha
New member
jbold..
this has ben discussed before...
the studies that you posted are a reflection of a general rule with respect to ala and r-ala.. that "juvenile" animals are very insulin sensitive and as training increases senstivity.. the impact of ala and r-ala is minimized..
however that does not reflect the reality of users..
1. most people that frequent these boards do not fall into the "juvenile" category. it is well established that insulin sensitivity declines with ages.. quite rapidly for women and somewhat slower but just as surely for men.
2. over 70%+ of americans are insulin resistant.
3. the only reflection of "minimization" of effect is with post exercise consumption.. there was still effect even in the juvenile insulin sensetive rats.
4. the studies that were critisized earlier (though recent) were extremely flawed.. using molar concentration 2.4 times the maximal effective dose in a non systemic (low oxidative environment) and the other was merely a survey that made broad and unclear conclusions..
5. the real world effect of both ala and r-ala are undeniable
btw to GnJ
.... typing is a lot easier than retyping the above 10-15 times a day.. which is what offsets.
this has ben discussed before...
the studies that you posted are a reflection of a general rule with respect to ala and r-ala.. that "juvenile" animals are very insulin sensitive and as training increases senstivity.. the impact of ala and r-ala is minimized..
however that does not reflect the reality of users..
1. most people that frequent these boards do not fall into the "juvenile" category. it is well established that insulin sensitivity declines with ages.. quite rapidly for women and somewhat slower but just as surely for men.
2. over 70%+ of americans are insulin resistant.
3. the only reflection of "minimization" of effect is with post exercise consumption.. there was still effect even in the juvenile insulin sensetive rats.
4. the studies that were critisized earlier (though recent) were extremely flawed.. using molar concentration 2.4 times the maximal effective dose in a non systemic (low oxidative environment) and the other was merely a survey that made broad and unclear conclusions..
5. the real world effect of both ala and r-ala are undeniable
btw to GnJ
.... typing is a lot easier than retyping the above 10-15 times a day.. which is what offsets.
"You know, I hate to say this....... BUT
Then don't it has nothing to do with this thread.
It seems that the only people that defend, or get made about r-ALA bashing, are the ones who have monitary interest in selling R-ala.
Did you ever consider that the people that sell r-ALA might be the ones who have done the most research on the product so they are naturally the ones with the most knowledge about it, which makes them the logical choice to post about it?"
I just don't know if I should take these statements with a grain of salt or not.
I just posted this 2 days ago but I will post it again because with all the great results being report ON THIS BOARD it is ridiculous that people would still question r-ALA's effectiveness. But you can take all these board members posts with that salt as well because they are probably all getting paid.
Sofageorge
r-ALA has turned me into a complete diet slob. Maybe I respond to it too well. I don't have to be careful at all now about what I eat.
Yesterday's lunch was a jumbo hotdog smothered with everything... two slices of peperroni pizza... and a jumbo hand dipped icecream bar rolled in nuts. I'm eating like this every day... and r-ALA is easily holding me in the 8% bodyfat range.
Huckleberryfinaplex
Been on it for a few days now.Muscles already feeling pumped.This morning,I made a mistake. I took 500mgs with nothing but a Met-Rx protein plus bar(low carb/sugar content).I nearly passed out.Got very lightheaded and dizzy.Hypo-city.Sort of reminds me of how DNP makes me feel on lower carbs,lol.Definitely very potent stuff at regulating insulin.
rj420
I just started it last week and it was working great... until I fucked up my back and now I can't train.AHHHHHHHH
Definitely could see the nootropic effect as well. Great, underated product.
Frackal
R-ala for me has been superior in body composition changes, and keeping me from holding alot of water, when I stop r-ala in between shipments I look pretty crappy...r-ala pretty much keeps me at a good level of leaness maybe 2%bf less than I would be if everythign was the same otherwise.
gUiLe
I read a lot of people talk about the lack of the "Hypo" feeling/effect while using R-ala. I have used ALA MANY times in the past and have felt it many times. This morning, I took 400mg
of R-ala post cardio with a whey shake and oatmeal. I am STILL feeling hypo!!! This seems to be some potent stuff...
Ceebs
I experimented with various amounts over my last 2-day refeed, and found that small amounts frequently (100-200 mg every 2-3 hours) worked "better" than larger amounts less frequently (400 mg every 4-6 hours). On the day when I took the smaller amounts frequently, I got fewer symptoms of hypoglycemia, my strength was up, and I just felt better mentally.
FitFossil
To get back on topic... As far as the r-ALA goes I love it. I can eat carbs at night and wake up w/ abs crisp not watery. Also, carbs don't make my sleepy like they used to. The regular ALA sometimes made my feel shaky (and made my pee smell funny). I just ordered more bottles.
Spatts
I recently started using R-ala, which decreases my sensitivity to carbs, and have cut WAY back on protein intake as a result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
…I remained in a mild state of ketosis (according to keto strips) while taking in a variety of high glycemic carbs.
I have only been using it for 3 days, but it's the only 3 days in the last 27 years that I've been able to eat carbs WITHOUT falling asleep. I'm suddenly not hyper sensitive to carbs, and I'm loving it.
I don't know about ulter and macro......... but Fonz is not really the model of integrity..... I hope that's not true for the others.
Ever notice that macro bumps the yohimburn threads with no info but just the ( ) symbol?"
A guy developes and tests a product, his distributor pays a board owner to advertise the product, then he bumps posts about his product. And you have a problem with that?
Then don't it has nothing to do with this thread.
It seems that the only people that defend, or get made about r-ALA bashing, are the ones who have monitary interest in selling R-ala.
Did you ever consider that the people that sell r-ALA might be the ones who have done the most research on the product so they are naturally the ones with the most knowledge about it, which makes them the logical choice to post about it?"
I just don't know if I should take these statements with a grain of salt or not.
I just posted this 2 days ago but I will post it again because with all the great results being report ON THIS BOARD it is ridiculous that people would still question r-ALA's effectiveness. But you can take all these board members posts with that salt as well because they are probably all getting paid.
Sofageorge
r-ALA has turned me into a complete diet slob. Maybe I respond to it too well. I don't have to be careful at all now about what I eat.
Yesterday's lunch was a jumbo hotdog smothered with everything... two slices of peperroni pizza... and a jumbo hand dipped icecream bar rolled in nuts. I'm eating like this every day... and r-ALA is easily holding me in the 8% bodyfat range.
Huckleberryfinaplex
Been on it for a few days now.Muscles already feeling pumped.This morning,I made a mistake. I took 500mgs with nothing but a Met-Rx protein plus bar(low carb/sugar content).I nearly passed out.Got very lightheaded and dizzy.Hypo-city.Sort of reminds me of how DNP makes me feel on lower carbs,lol.Definitely very potent stuff at regulating insulin.
rj420
I just started it last week and it was working great... until I fucked up my back and now I can't train.AHHHHHHHH
Definitely could see the nootropic effect as well. Great, underated product.
Frackal
R-ala for me has been superior in body composition changes, and keeping me from holding alot of water, when I stop r-ala in between shipments I look pretty crappy...r-ala pretty much keeps me at a good level of leaness maybe 2%bf less than I would be if everythign was the same otherwise.
gUiLe
I read a lot of people talk about the lack of the "Hypo" feeling/effect while using R-ala. I have used ALA MANY times in the past and have felt it many times. This morning, I took 400mg
of R-ala post cardio with a whey shake and oatmeal. I am STILL feeling hypo!!! This seems to be some potent stuff...
Ceebs
I experimented with various amounts over my last 2-day refeed, and found that small amounts frequently (100-200 mg every 2-3 hours) worked "better" than larger amounts less frequently (400 mg every 4-6 hours). On the day when I took the smaller amounts frequently, I got fewer symptoms of hypoglycemia, my strength was up, and I just felt better mentally.
FitFossil
To get back on topic... As far as the r-ALA goes I love it. I can eat carbs at night and wake up w/ abs crisp not watery. Also, carbs don't make my sleepy like they used to. The regular ALA sometimes made my feel shaky (and made my pee smell funny). I just ordered more bottles.
Spatts
I recently started using R-ala, which decreases my sensitivity to carbs, and have cut WAY back on protein intake as a result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
…I remained in a mild state of ketosis (according to keto strips) while taking in a variety of high glycemic carbs.
I have only been using it for 3 days, but it's the only 3 days in the last 27 years that I've been able to eat carbs WITHOUT falling asleep. I'm suddenly not hyper sensitive to carbs, and I'm loving it.
I don't know about ulter and macro......... but Fonz is not really the model of integrity..... I hope that's not true for the others.
Ever notice that macro bumps the yohimburn threads with no info but just the (
) symbol?"A guy developes and tests a product, his distributor pays a board owner to advertise the product, then he bumps posts about his product. And you have a problem with that?
PhillyB-chargeback
New member
i am not getting paid by AF or even getting a discount...i haven't really experimented with r-ala yet, but the yohimburn stuff trully works...my girlfriend thought i was nuts spending that kind of money on a liquid fat burner....now she saw the results i got with no added cardio and only a cut back on carbs in my diet and she wants a bottle for xmas...haha....i was using the older version and not the newer one, can't wait to get that kind for her
GinNJuice
New member
Good reply Ulter.
I have been taking your r-ala, yohimburn and NYC along with Test/EQ/var/arimidex, CKD diet, ECA, a short DNP run......... for several weeks now and I'm getting good results (better pumps, lost BF, strength, etc...) ....... the only problem for me is that I'm not sure if the positive results are from one component, several, or the whole combination. All I know is that it has been fairly expensive and successful...... what more can I say?
I'm just wondering how much of each component of my "stack" is more responsible for the positive results than others.
I guess I don't really care, I can afford it and like the results..... but I still have questions.
I have been taking your r-ala, yohimburn and NYC along with Test/EQ/var/arimidex, CKD diet, ECA, a short DNP run......... for several weeks now and I'm getting good results (better pumps, lost BF, strength, etc...) ....... the only problem for me is that I'm not sure if the positive results are from one component, several, or the whole combination. All I know is that it has been fairly expensive and successful...... what more can I say?
I'm just wondering how much of each component of my "stack" is more responsible for the positive results than others.
I guess I don't really care, I can afford it and like the results..... but I still have questions.
When I run a stack of eq/test/deca/tren/winny I don't know which one is doing most either, though I suspect the tren, so I know what you mean. As long as when you're done you look in the mirror and like what you see it doesn't matter anymore. 
macro: since the abstracts that I posted do not mention the age of the rats and I can not access the full text of the article, perhaps you could post it or send me an im with it for my archives as I would be interested in seeing the age of the rats used in the study and reading the discussion section.
jb
jb
I guess the problem that I have is that instead of having an intelligent discussion about rALA, everyone just jumps down your throat if you post any negative research. No one has really answered my previous studies showing that ALA inhibits glycogen synthase. While I use ALA with good results when I am cutting, I am not ready to claim that rALA is the be all end all supplement with absolutely no downside. I don't get a pump as easily if I take rALA before working out, and I know many others don't either. I think that the data presented make for an interesting discussion, which is all I am trying to promote. I don't see why it has to be lumped as rALA "bashing" or that the response needs to be so negative..
I think macro answer you Jguns, twice. The study is flawed and draws no conclusions only presumptions. All the other researchers, particularly the Koreans at USC School of Pharm and the Japanese, found otherwise.
The studies done with lean rats are all juvenile rats, there are no lean old rats that are not insulin resistant. Unless they genetically engineered them just for this study, but at a cost of $40,000 per rat what are the chances they did that?
There are some downsides for some people with r-ALA. For some women the lowered insulin levels is causing them to need to take in more water, for instance. All the ups and downs are all posted on these boards. Which is why we introduced the product here in the first place. We have 30 years of studies but we need real world results and this is the best place to get them.
The studies done with lean rats are all juvenile rats, there are no lean old rats that are not insulin resistant. Unless they genetically engineered them just for this study, but at a cost of $40,000 per rat what are the chances they did that?
There are some downsides for some people with r-ALA. For some women the lowered insulin levels is causing them to need to take in more water, for instance. All the ups and downs are all posted on these boards. Which is why we introduced the product here in the first place. We have 30 years of studies but we need real world results and this is the best place to get them.
macrophage69alpha
New member
jguns... the baching reference was actually more directed at nandi..
thouhg your presentation was an attack.. not a "what does this mean?"
btw- both ala and r-ala are effective.. r-ala just has effects that are not present with racemic due tothe presence of the s isomer..
most of the benefit with respect to r-ala lies in its insulin lowering effect..
btw- someone sent me a copy of the study on protein synth.. just a quick note the amount of slin needed for amino transport is extremely minor.. part of the reason that some have never advocated the use of exogenous slin
thouhg your presentation was an attack.. not a "what does this mean?"
btw- both ala and r-ala are effective.. r-ala just has effects that are not present with racemic due tothe presence of the s isomer..
most of the benefit with respect to r-ala lies in its insulin lowering effect..
btw- someone sent me a copy of the study on protein synth.. just a quick note the amount of slin needed for amino transport is extremely minor.. part of the reason that some have never advocated the use of exogenous slin
