When should you wear a weight belt?

[Blkout]

now we'll wait for the grip victims to chime in......

I get a strong feeling that maybe your grip is better than average so you've never had this problem or maybe its that you've never moved enough weight to need straps. If so, good for you.

I'm not one to blow workout after workout waiting for my grip to MAYBE catch up to the strength of my traps and back. If you choose to do so hoping your grip will eventually catch up so be it. I can have a strong grip without it hampering my back and trap workouts. My grip gets worked on every other excercise, but I am not going to let it hold my back and traps from growing just so that I can be proportionally strong in all muscles. Unfortunately you seem to have a hard time understanding where genetics come in. While I agree that you can improve any muscle in your body, there is almost always a muscle or two that grows better than the rest in your body and often a muscle or two that grows slower than the rest. Why is this? Genetics. And because of this is the same reason why straps and belts have their place.

If you can squat 600lbs without a belt or deadlift 700lbs without a belt, I think that's wonderful, consider yourself blessed with great genetics in those areas, but the average user is going to be stronger in the back, traps, and legs than their grip or back will ever tolerate after working out for a few years. I guess I could take it a step further and say, why risk injuring your forearms or lower back just so that you can say you lift without those aids? To me its not worth it, injuries are setbacks and not something I am fond of. I leave my ego outside when I come into the gym.

I am into getting the absolute maximum work out of the muscle I am training that day, yes I realize that other stabilizing muscles will be involved but I am not into hammering those muscles just for the sake of balance. I can always spend extra time working those muscles on a seperate day to bring them up without wasting my bigger workouts waiting for the smaller muscles to play catch up?

Can you see what I am saying here? I am not arguing with anyone, just providing a different view that some of you don't seem to see. maybe we all just have different goals which is why I don't try to tell any of you how you should work out. Training is subjective so you have to be careful in giving advice to someone because as I said before, what works for you may not be good for someone else.

 

[Arioch]

Someone should dig in the Supertraining list archives for discussions of Chek's idea that the transverse abdominus can be selectively recruited in this manner. He was torn to shreds, by many posters, and he withdrew from the discussion. This has been an established pattern. His idea of heavy weight, and a relevant counterpoint went something like:

Chek: "I know what it is like to work with really strong athletes. I have help train a man who can squat 600."

Dave Tate: "At our gym, that's an above average bench."

Note: The above is paraphrased.

Several other people challenged him to support his statements, and he could not. Including Chad Riley and Eric Burkheart (S$C coach - Irvine).

The fact is that wearing a belt allows a lifter to generate more force due to the heightened stability of increased IAP. (studies available upon request - tomorrow).

 

[bignate73]

LOL, i gotta get my avatar changed.

now im gonna get an email from the Commandant of the Marine Corps....hmmm...maybe there is another job opportunity there. going back in as fitness advisor to the Commandant

back to business.

ok, with some of the things bfold said, i will concede. IF, your competition allows it, why not add a bit more stability to your lift. IF, everyone commenting to "use the belt" had read the articles i posted, they would know that the abs will travel out upon maximum lifts, but they will do so under eccentric control of the TVA and NOT by being "pushed out deliberately". (those lost, read the article) but this isnt to say that training to maintain TVA control shouldnt be paramount. on competition day, the use of a belt WITH full TVA activation will allow for now increased spinal stability and intra abdominal pressure, thereby increasing your core stability. full on pushing out of the abs is relying on the belt and generally means less abdominal control. strength athlete or no, its a functional stabilization pattern that gets reversed with sedentary people, uninformed athletes and powerlifters. we unlearn it basically. as a child, it is still instinct.

so to cap it up. if you want to use said belt to help on competition day, fine. but dont neglect the other X amount of times you do your lifts to actually strengthen yourself functionally and protect your spine.

as for the argument of strengthening the weak part and continuing to use supports or straps. think about it this way, do you get better at shot putting by doing shoulder presses or practicing the movement. work the movement as a whole to increase the capabilities of all the muscles in the complex. want to get better at squats, squat. want to be able to hang on doing pullups, then hang on. that doesnt mean that other exercises wont hasten your progress but the specific movment itself is the best training to progress.

 

[Blkout]

Thats EXACTLY what it means. If you notice that your lower back and ab strength is out of propotion to the rest of your body...then you have found your "weakness". You need to make it strong. And if you just strap on a belt...then even though you are doing extra work for your lagging parts...they will never catch up to the rest...because you are strengthening then through the use of the belt.

I ditched the belt for everything but Speed Squats on Friday. And initially all my Max Effort movements went down...but after a couple of weeks or two...with some extra core work...my poundages were back up. So when I put the belt on in competition I am that much stronger.

You seem to be missing the point that maybe everyone's back and abs aren't going to be strong enough to support large lifts. I again will say that genetics play a role here. If your legs grow at an insane rate but your back and abs are slow growers, then why should anyone sacrifice their leg workouts until their abs and back TRY to catch up. Its like saying that your only as strong as your weakest link, well in bodybuilding this is can be overcome by working around sometimes. While I agree that optimally we would hope that all our muscles are proportionally as strong as the others, this is not often the case. I am not encouraging anyone to never worry about weak points, but I am saying that its sutpid to hold back another body part while smaller less genetically gifted muscles play catch up.

Again, I fail to see where many of you don't understand this. maybe as I said before, we are just training for two different things, as a bodybuilder, I am into making the targeted muscle grow, not achieveing proportional strength. Strength is nice, but some muscles are just going to be stronger than others. Genetics play a role here.

 

[Lumberg]

Someone should dig in the Supertraining list archives for discussions of Chek's idea that the transverse abdominus can be selectively recruited in this manner. He was torn to shreds, by many posters, and he withdrew from the discussion. This has been an established pattern. His idea of heavy weight, and a relevant counterpoint went something like:

Chek: "I know what it is like to work with really strong athletes. I have help train a man who can squat 600."

Dave Tate: "At our gym, that's an above average bench."

Note: The above is paraphrased.

Several other people challenged him to support his statements, and he could not. Including Chad Riley and Eric Burkheart (S$C coach - Irvine).

The fact is that wearing a belt allows a lifter to generate more force due to the heightened stability of increased IAP. (studies available upon request - tomorrow).

I don't know if I will ever squat, much less bench, 600 lbs and I don't care. Chek is not talking about competitive powerlifters so much as weightlifting enthusiasts and bodybuilders.

However as nate said even for them is is a good idea to learn the proper recruitment pattern for the TVA and augment the stability with a belt if they so choose.

JC

 

[b fold the truth]

The guy who cuts the grass at work wears his powerlifting belt when he cuts the grass...lol...I love it. He also wears his gloves too...

B True

 

[bignate73]

He was torn to shreds, by many posters, and he withdrew from the discussion.

Several other people challenged him to support his statements, and he could not. Including Chad Riley and Eric Burkheart (S$C coach - Irvine).

The fact is that wearing a belt allows a lifter to generate more force due to the heightened stability of increased IAP. (studies available upon request - tomorrow).

one voice against many cant be heard. i would withdraw too. old habits die hard.

supporting his statements or that of core stability. he need not, there is plenty of information out there for people to seek out.

i have read many of supertraining's discussions, and they seem to border on perpetuation of old beliefs. or disseminating information that can be had by simple research. its not an elite list of people, though there are some that are. siff does have some big names on his board but there are some genuine knuckleheads as well. i would gather that a bulk of them were the ones you speak of who challenged chek's statement.

as for IAP, yes belts do that. noone is arguing that. but the body is capable of producing a great amount of pressure on its own as well but simple muscle control. much of the pressure produced by pushing the abs out is elastic tension of the stretched transverse abdominis, rectus abdominis, and obliques. simple pressure theory, make the box SMALLER and the air or contents inside push harder against the walls, make the box bigger and you have to fill it with more to get the same pressure. the belt facilitates making the box smaller, the TVA activated IS the wall of the box. you make the choice.

 

[Blkout]

LOL, i gotta get my avatar changed.

now im gonna get an email from the Commandant of the Marine Corps....hmmm...maybe there is another job opportunity there. going back in as fitness advisor to the Commandant

back to business.

ok, with some of the things bfold said, i will concede. IF, your competition allows it, why not add a bit more stability to your lift. IF, everyone commenting to "use the belt" had read the articles i posted, they would know that the abs will travel out upon maximum lifts, but they will do so under eccentric control of the TVA and NOT by being "pushed out deliberately". (those lost, read the article) but this isnt to say that training to maintain TVA control shouldnt be paramount. on competition day, the use of a belt WITH full TVA activation will allow for now increased spinal stability and intra abdominal pressure, thereby increasing your core stability. full on pushing out of the abs is relying on the belt and generally means less abdominal control. strength athlete or no, its a functional stabilization pattern that gets reversed with sedentary people, uninformed athletes and powerlifters. we unlearn it basically. as a child, it is still instinct.

so to cap it up. if you want to use said belt to help on competition day, fine. but dont neglect the other X amount of times you do your lifts to actually strengthen yourself functionally and protect your spine.

as for the argument of strengthening the weak part and continuing to use supports or straps. think about it this way, do you get better at shot putting by doing shoulder presses or practicing the movement. work the movement as a whole to increase the capabilities of all the muscles in the complex. want to get better at squats, squat. want to be able to hang on doing pullups, then hang on. that doesnt mean that other exercises wont hasten your progress but the specific movment itself is the best training to progress.

Nate to a certain extent I do agree on creating bad habits, ok fine. But saying that a belt is useless or a crutch is blanket statement. It has a place. No it should not be used in place of bad form, I agree.

As for the last paragraph, while I do agree that doing the movment itself would always be better, keep in mind that you cannot do ANY back movements without using your forearms, therefore, your weakest link is always going to be your forearms since your back will more than likely grow at a faster rate. Why hold up my back potential waiting for my forearms to catch up? Its ludicrous. If we were in the fortunate of position of being able to target ONLY the muscle being trained it would be wonderful but this is not the case, there will always be stabilizing muscles involved. More times than not those stabilizing muscles are not going to grow as fast as the larger muscles. Heavy compund movements expose these weaknesses the best. Do not hold back a larger muscle until a smaller one catches up, instead do extra work for the smaller muscle and with hope and hard work, it should catch up. Straps and belts are a good thing when used properly.

 

[b fold the truth]

I stand up, tighten my belt and make sure that I am properly chalked. I spread my feet out wide and make sure to spread the floor with my chucks. My knee wraps are so tight that I can barely sit down....

I get focused...take in a big breath of air...head up, back arched, and I sit back back back back back....till I hit the toilet.

I love my gear.

B True

 

[bignate73]

let me just say that i see where alot of people are coming from, their thinking is etc.

everyone will have a goal, be it cosmetic, strength, power, functionality, health, fitness etc. its up to the person to make the tradeoff to get what he/she wants. if someone wants to train beyond what one bodypart can handle in order to develop another, its their choice. just so long as they understand the steps they took or didnt take to get there. its like looking into someone else's yard and saying, im going to get into that yard. now you can either hop the fence or go through it. (i'm bullheaded enough to go through it, but i dont use straps.)

interesting discussions by all though. kudos!