Soy protein...

[MS]

A post stalker...coooooollll (NOT)

I know what your saying about popular public opinion regarding soy. I remember when it was "common knowledge" that high protein/low carb diets were inconceivably bad for you. All I'm saying is that there is often a difference (and in the case of soy there IS a difference) between "common knowledge" and what turns out to be reality. Even if he is a stalker, NYs point about 'estrogenic' = BAD is a good one. There are a zillion different types of phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens some very good, some very bad, and some neutral.Testosterone is the most estrogenic chemical in males, but that does not mean that Test is BAD. Many flavones and isoflavones (including those found in soy) are overall more ANTI-estrogenic than they are estrogenic. If you're a bodybuilder, and especially a female bodybuilder, it is a real shame that you would exclude these compounds from your diet. Controlling estrogen is prolly the biggest hurdle for most female BBs I know. Now I know I'm not gonna change your mindset on soy and it's no sweat off my back what you eat or
don't. I just don't want you to put people off researching it and trying it for themselves based entirely on your opinion.

For the record, I consider RECENT research to be research articles (not books) published in 2001.

 

[NY Muscle]

MS.. just for the record.. ny muscle does this to me all the time, regardless what i post or say or on what board.. can you say post stalker!!!
obviously it is my opinion based on my own experiences and also from RECENT research in an alternative medical book.. not to mention that most bodybuilders that i know or work with and trainers all prefer whey to any other protein. It is just a better protein source than soy and the point was it doesn't have the estrogen effects...
I also agree with bucksoon on the milk protein isolate; again over soy.. i think soy would be the last protein i would use, like in a pinch if need be.. but my first choice is always whey post workout and through-out the day, i use 1/2 milk and 1/2 water.

lol i see u Kristy

back to your post...whey is better than soy or any other combo is your opinion or is that fact? just becuase you prefer it and so do all these * trainers* doesnt mean its better, so I am just trying to understand what you mean there.

personally I use whey and sometimes add soy but i do prefer WHEY over SOY alone( whey tastes better), but that doesnt mean i feel whey is better..maybe it tastes better....also different proteins can be used for different needs...you take my posts as an attack on you, you are wrong, just trying make you understand what is FACT and what is PRERFERANCE based on the mere fact that you use one protein over the other based on tastes or *cause your friends use it.*


supergirl you said this in your orignal post ****why would you want a protein that mimics estrogen when whey, is the highest yield of protein available. ****.. and i answered you on that comment and you took it offensively. thats where I used nolvadex as an example and it is a very good example.

you also quoted this from some *internet* site...... ********Whey is the best investment because of its capacity as a post-workout recovery supplement. ***********
.............ok once again SPECIFIC applications....for post workout shake WHEY may indeed be the best, but I could go on and tell you why WHEY alone isnt, but lets say i agree with you..... what abuot the other times of the day when a male or female wants to take a shake.....why is whey better again at that time of day (morning/noon/night) over soy or any other protein for that matter? It isnt.. you told me when we chatted last night that you dont like soy for some estrogen related reasons maybe something you experienced from taking SOY or something I do not recall...but for most woman and at different stages in thier life soy is great for them and it is also good for men too...a nice mixture of both for a male or female is ideal like i stated above as well as MS did in his post.

i didnt flame anyone, supergirl took my reply with facts as a flame...and its not....just fyi... everytime someone responds to this thread,,,i get an email from elite notifying me...lol so Im not stalking anyone....just was making my original comments to let the ORIGINAL poster of this thread base his or her choices of protein use based on FACT not opinion..nothing more...so I apologize if you think I attacked you in anyway...I assure you I didnt nor did I want it to seem that WHEY errrr i mean WAY... lol

i like whey beacause it goes down smooth and tastes great..soy added to whey its better than whey or soy alone as a *best(protein powder source*.. but like i said i USE whey more often...
also 90% of the WHEY that peopke buy is actually inferior in comparison to the SOY ISOLATE that are what most people are buying...the soy isolate is hands down a better protein in terms of certain amino acids and GRAMS of protein per actualy servinge...thus yielding a much higher % of protein per givin amount.....WHEY ISOLATE...which many people rarely actually buy..could be argued to be even better that the SOY i mentioned, but can be argued as well......a combo of both is ideal like MS and I said before.

 

[supergirl]

A post stalker...coooooollll (NOT)

I know what your saying about popular public opinion regarding soy. I remember when it was "common knowledge" that high protein/low carb diets were inconceivably bad for you. All I'm saying is that there is often a difference (and in the case of soy there IS a difference) between "common knowledge" and what turns out to be reality. Even if he is a stalker, NYs point about 'estrogenic' = BAD is a good one. There are a zillion different types of phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens some very good, some very bad, and some neutral.Testosterone is the most estrogenic chemical in males, but that does not mean that Test is BAD. Many flavones and isoflavones (including those found in soy) are overall more ANTI-estrogenic than they are estrogenic. If you're a bodybuilder, and especially a female bodybuilder, it is a real shame that you would exclude these compounds from your diet. Controlling estrogen is prolly the biggest hurdle for most female BBs I know. Now I know I'm not gonna change your mindset on soy and it's no sweat off my back what you eat or
don't. I just don't want you to put people off researching it and trying it for themselves based entirely on your opinion.

For the record, I consider RECENT research to be research articles (not books) published in 2001.

cool.. i am not dictating, just stating my opinion and as per conversations i have has with others in the industry, we feel whey is superior, but like you said, yes that is my opinion based on personal experience.. i am not gonna try to manipulate my estrogen by using soy.. I do know the benefits of soy because my mother who is post menapausal takes soy protein religiously and soy suppliments and it totally stopped her hot flashes and balanced everything out...
BUT in my opinion for a younger woman looking for a richer more potent protein i still have to go with whey or milk protein..

hey.. does soy sauce on my sushi count ?? lol

 

[NY Muscle]

one more thing since we are on the topic, most of the whey people buy (including myself) and ESPECIALLY those 5 lbs jugs are WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE with maybe a damn 1/2 cup of ISOLATE lol... this whey is like 77% protein at best maybe 80% as opposed to soy ISOLATE which is like 90% maybe 95%+, not sure and whey ISOLATE which is like 90-95% but once again im not exactly sure on amount. next time look at the protein gms per serving and scoop size and divide the 2 you will see how poor the protein % is expecially when theres like 2gms or more carbs per serving.

good WHEY ISOLATE is pricy and most people like myself are getting the whey CONCENTRATE..personally id rather save $20 on protein because i eat and drink so much protein that the 10-12% better protein both soy and whey ISOLATE have is not personally worth the extra $20 per 5lb or what ever it is.

i do drink isopure MEAL REPLACEMENTS which is supposed to be the ISOLATE but i aslo add additional whey concentrate.

 

[supergirl]

one more thing since we are on the topic, most of the whey people buy (including myself) and ESPECIALLY those 5 lbs jugs are WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE with maybe a damn 1/2 cup of ISOLATE lol... this whey is like 77% protein at best maybe 80% as opposed to soy ISOLATE which is like 90% maybe 95%+, not sure and whey ISOLATE which is like 90-95% but once again im not exactly sure on amount. next time look at the protein gms per serving and scoop size and divide the 2 you will see how poor the protein % is expecially when theres like 2gms or more carbs per serving.

good WHEY ISOLATE is pricy and most people like myself are getting the whey CONCENTRATE..personally id rather save $20 on protein because i eat and drink so much protein that the 10-12% better protein both soy and whey ISOLATE have is not personally worth the extra $20 per 5lb or what ever it is.

i do drink isopure MEAL REPLACEMENTS which is supposed to be the ISOLATE but i aslo add additional whey concentrate.

wow.. one thing we finally agree on.. isopure kicks ass!! and their pure protein drink is sick as well!

also, i found a good protein source from a friend for 95% pure whey, no fillers or flavoring.. almost dissolves on my tongue