So I'm thinking about starting a CKD, i need some meal ideas.

[OneBreath]

He looks amazing. We'll have some pics in August - I'm sure he'll share.

She's too kind.

Yeah reformata, that is the book i got last year and used then. I did that for a few months last year and had good results.

The things about it that don't work for me:

1. 2 day refeed
2. moderate fat on refeed days

So basically the CKD we did here is the same as the Anabolic Diet with the exception of the refeed being a little more mathematical. The number of carbs to take in is in proportion to your LBM. Once this limit is reached, the refeed needs to stop. For me that's about 850 to 1000 grams of carbs. I can easily hit this in 24 hours.

Second, fat is kept to a bare minimum and carbs are high GI. This makes digestion as fast as possible to kickstart metabolism and increase the speed of glycogen uptake. In other words your muscles get fuller faster. Fat would get in the way by slowing down digestion.

 

[mattie o]

im starting to think a 2 day refeed might be too much for me as well, especially if im trying to lose this last bit of fat. plus, i feel like a bag of shit after 2 days. i really need to be stricter. ive done ok keeping the fat low, but i carb up for too long i think.

are you guys doing alot of cardio? i havent for the past 3 weeks or so, ive just done upper body monday, lower body tuesday, and full body friday. all my workouts have been HARD and HEAVY....so im wondering, should i put the cardio back in? theres so much speculation on whether or not its needed...

 

[OneBreath]

im starting to think a 2 day refeed might be too much for me as well, especially if im trying to lose this last bit of fat. plus, i feel like a bag of shit after 2 days. i really need to be stricter. ive done ok keeping the fat low, but i carb up for too long i think.

are you guys doing alot of cardio? i havent for the past 3 weeks or so, ive just done upper body monday, lower body tuesday, and full body friday. all my workouts have been HARD and HEAVY....so im wondering, should i put the cardio back in? theres so much speculation on whether or not its needed...

I'd say definitely put the cardio back in and cut the refeed to 24 hours. For cardio just add some easy steady state treadmill walking pre-breakfast with a heartrate at about 130. It doesn't have to be much. 3 or 4 days a week. Just kill some extra calories while you are in ketosis.

 

[marcu_s]

well, ive started to do it in another way now.

still sticking whit the right protein and fat ranges, a few grams more of fat and maybe eating 30-50 carbs a day,BUT im doing morningcardio 50-70 mins 5-6 days a week.

ive just started to be so tired of weighting my sallad and stuff.

and a few spoons of peanutbutter is sooo good.
Onebreath, can i still get into ketosis doing it that way?

 

[mattie o]

damn. i hate cardio.

 

[OneBreath]

well, ive started to do it in another way now.

still sticking whit the right protein and fat ranges, a few grams more of fat and maybe eating 30-50 carbs a day,BUT im doing morningcardio 50-70 mins 5-6 days a week.

ive just started to be so tired of weighting my sallad and stuff.

and a few spoons of peanutbutter is sooo good.
Onebreath, can i still get into ketosis doing it that way?

Every body is different. The only way to know for sure is to get ketosticks and test yourself. 50 grams is definitely pushing it.

 

[OneBreath]

damn. i hate cardio.

Audio books. Best for that boring steady state cardio.

 

[mattie o]

good call! i never thought of that.

well, my carb up this time went much better. i started at 6 on friday, and stopped about 9 on saturday. i ate the following things:

krusteaz fat free fudge brownies with low fat vanilla raspberry sorbet (SO EFFING GOOD!)
mac n cheese made with fat free milk and no butter
chinese food (is this very fatty? i didnt eat anything deep fried, just rice and spicy chicken, etc)
cookie crisp with fat free milk
sushi rolls (1 g fat per roll, i only had a few)
waffles with the tiniest bit of butter (probably a tsp total) and gallons of powdered sugar
thats about it.

my depletion workout prior to this: well, it was 90 degrees out, and our gym doesnt have air conditioning. so after 10 reps of whatever, i already want to puke. my plan was to just go around the gym 3 times, hit every machine, and do a set of dead lifts in between each loop. well, i did the first loop, pretty balls out, and then my first set of dead lifts (85 lbs), and immedeatley had to lay down on a bench and try not to projectile vomit. ugh. so i took it easy for a few minutes, and then started my second loop. when i got to the dead lifts....i just couldnt do it. i started the 3rd loop, and got a little over halfway thru (didnt do any leg or ab machines on the 3rd time thru). i was WASTED. i felt sick, shaky, and completely exhausted. so im hoping that means i was depleted, even tho i did less than my usual depletion workout...the one before that i did 3x around, plus 3x10 hanging negs and 3 sets of walking lunges with dumbells. hmm.

anyhoo, i think im finally starting to see results. my monthy intruder is gone, so on friday before the carb up, i could really determine what was happening. so i decided to weigh. in the afternoon, which i usually dont condone.

135 LBS!!! YES! i was shocked. i thought since it was the afternoon, i was at the tail end of my period, and i was gaining so much muscle, that i would be like 145. HOLY LORD. i was pumped.

so i continue with the cycling. i do feel much better about the 24 hour carb up tho. i hardly ate anything sunday (yesterday) so as to get back into ketosis faster. judging by my poor husbands reaction to my breath this morning, id say im there.



something i wasnt so excited about: yesterday my family and i did some boating on the lake, to which i wore a bikini. thinking i was pretty cute and small, still tooting my own horn about 135 lbs, i caught sight of myself in a mirror on one of the boats. i looked terrible. please tell me this is just a result of bloating from the carb up the day before...

 

[OneBreath]

Damn that workout was hardcore. I would avoid the chinese. Most of their stuff is pretty fatty but to be honest you just never know what's in there. The rest of your foods look perfect. You even got rid of the fat from the mac and cheese.

Congrats on the weight. That's got to feel good.

 

[mattie o]

ok, so the workout is ok? i guess if your depleted, your depleted, doesnt matter how many times you went around i dont like to puke. scott is always yakkin in the gym. hes hard core.

 

[OneBreath]

ok, so the workout is ok? i guess if your depleted, your depleted, doesnt matter how many times you went around i dont like to puke. scott is always yakkin in the gym. hes hard core.

Workout looks good. No need to yak. Ironwings has yaked a few times here recently. She's more hardcore than me.

 

[mattie o]

go ironwings!

 

[ironwings]

Looks like you are doing great. Sometimes the mirror lies. Our mind allows it to! I've been cut to shreds and will catch a glimpse of myself and think "oh my goodness".

Throwing up is not the way to go. It actually isn't a sign of how hardcore your workout is - it is more about your blood sugar levels, dehydration and lack of minerals in your body. I've done a lot of research on this since it happens to me sparingly, but frequently enough to be concerned. Southern Lord coached me on it a bit and I think I have my culprit down to dehydration. Just keep an eye on it.

****I am preparing to go back on CKD beginning Sunday! I'll be completing another 4 weeks just like I did before. Typically two weeks in I'm shredded and then I stall. I'll be reducing my refeed time frame to Saturday from 12 - 8.

Since being off I have lost additional weight but look completely different. I've gained fat obviously while loosing a bit of muscle - to be expected. I still feel I am two weeks out from being shredded. I just need to be much more aware of water retention and catch it as soon as possible this time.

I won't have time this go round to post meals or workouts - although I'll try to list some in my journal. I'll need everyone's support! I HATE to diet. My soul tells me it is unhealthy and terrible both mentally and physically. Oh the things we'll do.

August 8th is the cutoff. Onebreath and I are exchanging vows on the 10th ;-) and I can't have him showing me up. He is ripped.

 

[mattie o]

congrats, you two! how exciting..scott and i are newlyweds too we got married february 15th this year. vegas baby!

ive been really trying to zero in on the water retention too, so as to reduce the water buffalo thing as much as possible. i realized this week that its easy for me to overdo it on the salt, and the smaller i get, the less sodium i can tolerate.

i think ive finally gotten the hang of this, or at least ive found out what works for me. my mom started calling me ally mcbeal, she thinks im too skinny. ha!

life is good. depletion workout at 5, its a hot day again so hopefully i wont run into what i did last week. ugh. im going to tell scott what you found out about the yakking, id be willing to bet that its because he isnt drinking enough agua. little shit.

 

[marcu_s]

Looks like you are doing great. Sometimes the mirror lies. Our mind allows it to! I've been cut to shreds and will catch a glimpse of myself and think "oh my goodness".

Throwing up is not the way to go. It actually isn't a sign of how hardcore your workout is - it is more about your blood sugar levels, dehydration and lack of minerals in your body. I've done a lot of research on this since it happens to me sparingly, but frequently enough to be concerned. Southern Lord coached me on it a bit and I think I have my culprit down to dehydration. Just keep an eye on it.

****I am preparing to go back on CKD beginning Sunday! I'll be completing another 4 weeks just like I did before. Typically two weeks in I'm shredded and then I stall. I'll be reducing my refeed time frame to Saturday from 12 - 8.

Since being off I have lost additional weight but look completely different. I've gained fat obviously while loosing a bit of muscle - to be expected. I still feel I am two weeks out from being shredded. I just need to be much more aware of water retention and catch it as soon as possible this time.

I won't have time this go round to post meals or workouts - although I'll try to list some in my journal. I'll need everyone's support! I HATE to diet. My soul tells me it is unhealthy and terrible both mentally and physically. Oh the things we'll do.

August 8th is the cutoff. Onebreath and I are exchanging vows on the 10th ;-) and I can't have him showing me up. He is ripped.

congrats to u and onebreath.

about the ckd ive been doing.
i have been so lazy on the diet.

if i would have followed everything i would proberbly be 3-4 kg lighter than i am now.
the reefeed have always gone overboard whit fats, i just cant stay away from nuts.
macademian,cashews and stuff like that, and chips.
so dont feel that your diet has gone bad.

from today ill do the diet strict as hell, taking no reefeed days anymore for well, atleast 2 weeks, 1 and a half.

ill go down to 10 bf...i just cant stand it so that is as good as it gets for me this cut, if i even should call it a cut, going down to just 10 bf.

im soo looking forword to eat like a normal person later on.
ill jump on my first cycle too so im so psyched.

im thinking about, cause im so feedup on counting calories and macros, to just, after 2 weeks, to just jump over to a normal diet 30p,30f and 40 carbs, still be in the 2100-2200 calorie range.

the first days or week i know ill get watery and maybe put on a little fat but ill just keep up whit my cardio and training and after a while maybe have get rid of the water and fat.

i shouldnt put on too much fat, do u think?

water i know will get me 2-3 kg heavier.

what do u guys think?

again, congrats Onebreath and Ironwigs.

 

[DrEric]

Hey there. I'm new to this thread, but I've been lurking for about a week getting caught up reading the whole thread.

Where are you guys getting the macro information to break down by meals? Is there a program I can get for this? Thanks.

I'm gonna start a cutting phase here in a couple of months. Just gathering some info now. Don't know yet if I'm going to do a CKD because I'm not getting married, or don't have some other event to get ready for. Don't want to do something extreme, then have a rebound.

 

[mattie o]

ill be honest, i could be stricter too. this last carb up was ok, but could have been a whole hell of a lot better. a: the fat could have been just a bit lower and b: it lasted 48 hours and c: we had mai tais.

so this next weekend, im really gonna have to pull my head out of my ass, as were going to be out of town on a little romantic getaway...easy to drink wine, and fatty pastas, fries, etc. so im really gonna have to watch my p's and q's. were doing our depletion work out at noon on friday, which means ill have to stop at noon on saturday, and i find it really hard to stop mid day. o well. i can do it. i really am seeing progress, so i dont know how detrimental my lame carb ups really are. but i dont like the slightly guilty, extra bloated feeling i get after a less than stellar carb up. boo.

 

[ironwings]

Just an update....on day 5 of CKD and down 3lbs and a trace of ketosis. I'm am really struggling to get enough water down...this could make me or break me.

My diet is consisting of lean ground beef, chicken, turkey bacon, sausage, cheese, ceasar salads and lots of vegetables cooked in olive oil. I'm keeping it pretty simple this time and I haven't been counting macros. I'll use the scale as my judge.

My refeeds will be a tighter window on Saturday from 12 - 8 and consist of 3 huge meals to get in as many high GI carbs that I can with very little fat.

Fun, fun.

 

[marcu_s]

i was planing to just do an 360 turn and change my diet to a 30p 30f and 40 carbs, but yesterday i had an accident, some sort.
ive been helping my mom tearing down a house and 2 days ago a wall (small wall) fell down on my left quad.
i was sore for about an hour then started to work again.

yesterday i started to carry all the shit and big things up and down a hill to the container, and after and hour when i got home the left quad just started to swollen more and more and after a while i couldnt even walk whitout hurting so...and swolle like half the size of, like the greatest pump ever!

went to the emergency and they told me i had gotten some kind of syndrom.
that the mucsle was overworked and they maybe would be forced to cut it up and drain it or something, that it was to big,swollen to fit in my fascista or what they said.
.

shit i almost pissed myself!

luckully i got some painkiller and walking sticks or i dont know the english word, and if it dont get better in 2-3 days ill have to cut it up
so no training for me. cant walk anywhere, and im forced to stick whit this diet cause i fell its the best one for loosing weight whitout doing any cardio or weights=(

im so pissed.

maybe wont be able to train legs as hard as im used to in the future eaither. this sucks.

i need some uflifting words.

 

[OneBreath]

i was planing to just do an 360 turn and change my diet to a 30p 30f and 40 carbs, but yesterday i had an accident, some sort.
ive been helping my mom tearing down a house and 2 days ago a wall (small wall) fell down on my left quad.
i was sore for about an hour then started to work again.

yesterday i started to carry all the shit and big things up and down a hill to the container, and after and hour when i got home the left quad just started to swollen more and more and after a while i couldnt even walk whitout hurting so...and swolle like half the size of, like the greatest pump ever!

went to the emergency and they told me i had gotten some kind of syndrom.
that the mucsle was overworked and they maybe would be forced to cut it up and drain it or something, that it was to big,swollen to fit in my fascista or what they said.
.

shit i almost pissed myself!

luckully i got some painkiller and walking sticks or i dont know the english word, and if it dont get better in 2-3 days ill have to cut it up
so no training for me. cant walk anywhere, and im forced to stick whit this diet cause i fell its the best one for loosing weight whitout doing any cardio or weights=(

im so pissed.

maybe wont be able to train legs as hard as im used to in the future eaither. this sucks.

i need some uflifting words.

That sucks big time. Definitely DO NOT dwell on it until they give you the decision in a couple of days. There's no use wasting your body's recovery energy with negative feelings on an unknown. Keep your head up and hope for the best. Whatever happens, just accept it and train the best that you can afterwards. There are much worse things that could happen like a torn pec. Now that will keep you from doing almost anything. Even getting under the bar to squat requires you to stretch your pecs.

Worse case scenario, you will still be able to fully train your entire upper body. You will have to go lighter on legs yes, but it's not a death sentence like a pec tear.

Keep your head up!

 

[OneBreath]

Thanks for the encouragement mattie. We are excited!

I'm back on the full CKD this week and down 4 lbs from Sunday. A few weeks ago i quit the refeeds because my weight was stuck around 230. I still kept carbs low so this week hasn't been a big transition (ironwings is another story). Today i'm 225.4. Lifts are still about the same (some even higher) so i've lost little to no muscle.

I'm doing a couple of things very different this time.

1. I'm getting ~350 grams of protein per day compared to 200 last round. I've dropped fat significantly so those cals have nowhere to go but to protein.

2. I'm meticulously drinking water each day. I'm averaging 1.5 gallons right now and trying to increase. This i think has made the most difference so far. I feel great even on low calories and no carbs.

3. The refeeds will be done in meals. 3 to be exact. No snacking, just 3 huge meals. I will not set a limit of carbs but rather eat as much as i possibly can in each of the 3 sittings. The refeed window will be shorter as well. It will start at 1PM on saturday and end that night.

4. All milk will be removed from refeeds. TEAMSKIP protein (blend of whey isolate/casien/egg protein) will be used as "milk".

Diet on Lifting days:

Meal 1: (PWO) 100 gm Whey, 2 tbsp ANPB blended in ice
Meal 2: 8 oz salmon, salad w/ 1 tbsp olive oil and vinegar
Meal 3: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB as pudding
Meal 4: Stir Fry or other meat/vegetable combination
Meal 5: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB blended in ice

Diet on cardio days:

Meal 1: Fast
Meal 2: Fast
Meal 3: 16 oz ground beef w/ salsa
Meal 4: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB as pudding
Meal 5: Stir Fry or other meat/vegetable combination
Meal 6: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB blended in ice

Refeed day:

Meal 1: 5 eggs, 50 gm TEAMSKIP w/ 2 tbsp ANPB blended in ice
Meal 2: Pancakes, maple syrup, and some kind of fat free dessert
Meal 3: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", rice syrup, poptarts
Meal 4: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", rice syrup, poptarts
Meal 5: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", chocolate brownies

So far so good. I'm looking forward to some cereal tomorrow!

 

[REFORMATA]

I've been on ckd for the past 3 weeks and I love it.

Like seriously. This is the diet for me.

And when I'm below 10 percent ill just stick to low GI carbs.

OneBreath: where did you get this TEAMSKIP?

Sounds interesting....and for cardio, you're fasting for how long exactly after completion of your session?


Thanks..


-Ryan

 

[marcu_s]

Thanks for the encouragement mattie. We are excited!

I'm back on the full CKD this week and down 4 lbs from Sunday. A few weeks ago i quit the refeeds because my weight was stuck around 230. I still kept carbs low so this week hasn't been a big transition (ironwings is another story). Today i'm 225.4. Lifts are still about the same (some even higher) so i've lost little to no muscle.

I'm doing a couple of things very different this time.

1. I'm getting ~350 grams of protein per day compared to 200 last round. I've dropped fat significantly so those cals have nowhere to go but to protein.

2. I'm meticulously drinking water each day. I'm averaging 1.5 gallons right now and trying to increase. This i think has made the most difference so far. I feel great even on low calories and no carbs.

3. The refeeds will be done in meals. 3 to be exact. No snacking, just 3 huge meals. I will not set a limit of carbs but rather eat as much as i possibly can in each of the 3 sittings. The refeed window will be shorter as well. It will start at 1PM on saturday and end that night.

4. All milk will be removed from refeeds. TEAMSKIP protein (blend of whey isolate/casien/egg protein) will be used as "milk".

Diet on Lifting days:

Meal 1: (PWO) 100 gm Whey, 2 tbsp ANPB blended in ice
Meal 2: 8 oz salmon, salad w/ 1 tbsp olive oil and vinegar
Meal 3: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB as pudding
Meal 4: Stir Fry or other meat/vegetable combination
Meal 5: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB blended in ice

Diet on cardio days:

Meal 1: Fast
Meal 2: Fast
Meal 3: 16 oz ground beef w/ salsa
Meal 4: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB as pudding
Meal 5: Stir Fry or other meat/vegetable combination
Meal 6: 50 gm TEAMSKIP, 50 gm WHEY, 2tbsp ANPB blended in ice

Refeed day:

Meal 1: 5 eggs, 50 gm TEAMSKIP w/ 2 tbsp ANPB blended in ice
Meal 2: Pancakes, maple syrup, and some kind of fat free dessert
Meal 3: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", rice syrup, poptarts
Meal 4: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", rice syrup, poptarts
Meal 5: Cerial w/ TEAMSKIP "milk", chocolate brownies

So far so good. I'm looking forward to some cereal tomorrow!

onebreath.
is ckd a diet, or is it just a word for a diet that contains just below 30 grams of carbs?
first i thought that the ckd diet was so and so many grams of that and that but...can a ckd diet be different ratios?

there isnt an EXACT plan how and cycling ketogen diet looks like, is there?

 

[OneBreath]

onebreath.
is ckd a diet, or is it just a word for a diet that contains just below 30 grams of carbs?
first i thought that the ckd diet was so and so many grams of that and that but...can a ckd diet be different ratios?

there isnt an EXACT plan how and cycling ketogen diet looks like, is there?

Cyclical Ketogenic Diet CKD just means a diet where you have periods of low carb (less than 30 or 40) followed by a refeed. A ketogenic diet is simply low carb. A Targeted Ketogenic Diet TKD is low carb but with small carb meals timed around lifting.

I used to think of CKD in terms of an EXACT diet but i've since seen the errs of my ways. Bio-individuality dictates that we must always seek what our body responds best too. This time around rather than applying a formula someone else wrote, i've experimented to see what my body likes. Choosing the right foods and the right protein/fat ratio and the right maintenance calorie level is not for someone else to do for you but for you to discover for yourself.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[OneBreath]

I've been on ckd for the past 3 weeks and I love it.

Like seriously. This is the diet for me.

And when I'm below 10 percent ill just stick to low GI carbs.

OneBreath: where did you get this TEAMSKIP?

Sounds interesting....and for cardio, you're fasting for how long exactly after completion of your session?


Thanks..


-Ryan

Damn, i'm glad it's working out for you. I remember when you were first thinking about starting it.

The TEAMSKIP protein can be found at TrueProtein. I just got some for the first time 2 weeks ago and i'm in love. It's 34% Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltration, 33% Micellar Casein, and 33% Egg White protein. It's the perfect meal replacement protein. It also makes for a great consistency. Straight casein gets too thick and whey is too thin. I can make a great bowl of "pudding" with this shit.

Skip Hill is a contest prep coach that uses the high gi refeeds for his clients in contest prep and this is the protein he has his clients on. Some of his clients have 24 hour refeeds as high as 4,000 grams of carbs. And he gets them fucking shredded. He knows his shit.

My personal recommendation is to get the protein unflavored. Then get one or more flavor packs. I'm using the Natural Vanilla but there are others to choose from.

If you decide to buy use this discount code to save 5% JYF741.

Here's the protein
True Protein | High Quality Nutrition and Protein Supplements

Here's the flavor packs
True Protein | High Quality Nutrition and Protein Supplements

My nighttime shake is this protein, 1 tsp of the vanilla flavor, 2 tbsp natural peanut butter. Then i add ice and water and blend it in the blender. It comes out almost at the consistency of a slurpee. The really cool thing is that with the casien and ice it sort of expands and makes a lot of volume. So it takes a while to eat and fills my stomach for relatively few calories.

The pudding is this protein, 1/2 to 3/4 of a vanilla atkins shake, and 2 tbsp peanut butter mixed in a bowl. I then put the bowl in the freezer for about 2 hours. It turns the "pudding" into almost the feeling of eating ice cream. If i accidentally leave it in the freezer too long it will freeze solid and 30 seconds in the microwave brings it back to it's icecream like state.

These 2 recipes have helped me keep my sanity be making me feel like i'm having treats.

For the fasting, i play it by ear. I decided to take today completely off. I bombed it in the gym yesterday after my refeed so i'm pretty damn sore. Since i'm not doing anything i might fast until 1PM. On a cardio day i might take it to 10 or 11. It will depend on what my body is telling me.

Fasting is something i've been experimenting with over the last 3 months. On at least 2 days of every week i have fasted until 1PM. I have gotten great results from this and have not lost any muscle. My lifts continue to go up. My feeling is that the increased insulin sensitivity i get from the fast more than makes up for the tiny bit of muscle that got lost during the fast.

 

[marcu_s]

Cyclical Ketogenic Diet CKD just means a diet where you have periods of low carb (less than 30 or 40) followed by a refeed. A ketogenic diet is simply low carb. A Targeted Ketogenic Diet TKD is low carb but with small carb meals timed around lifting.

I used to think of CKD in terms of an EXACT diet but i've since seen the errs of my ways. Bio-individuality dictates that we must always seek what our body responds best too. This time around rather than applying a formula someone else wrote, i've experimented to see what my body likes. Choosing the right foods and the right protein/fat ratio and the right maintenance calorie level is not for someone else to do for you but for you to discover for yourself.

Hope that makes sense.

yeah it does make sense.
ill start to experiment also, this will be fun.

do u have any advice on how it can be done the best way?
how do i know for sure that im spot on?

 

[OneBreath]

yeah it does make sense.
ill start to experiment also, this will be fun.

do u have any advice on how it can be done the best way?
how do i know for sure that im spot on?

There definitely is no best way of doing it. Just try different protein/fat combinations while keeping carbs below 30 grams each day.

You will know if you are doing well by:

1. You are losing weight
2. You feel good and have energy

Don't look for a magic ratio. Your body knows. Listen to it.

 

[mattie o]

slightly unrelated: i finally maxed out on the bench press...now, bear in mind, id never done it before, and it was on friday, at the END of my depletion work out, and it was 87 degrees. i did 120 lbs!!!! i couldnt believe it. im gonna try for 130 today, which means i can ALMOST bench my weight! yay!

 

[OneBreath]

slightly unrelated: i finally maxed out on the bench press...now, bear in mind, id never done it before, and it was on friday, at the END of my depletion work out, and it was 87 degrees. i did 120 lbs!!!! i couldnt believe it. im gonna try for 130 today, which means i can ALMOST bench my weight! yay!

That's pretty badass. Congrats!

 

[steve_m33]

One breath unreal thread bro... I've tried CKDs in the past but have always ended up moving toward TKDs with high GI carbs pw only. I generally like to eat a shit ton of veg everyday (i.e. BIG salads) which are tough to limit to 30g CHO.

Quick question tho bro... do you NEED to use processed carbos for the refeed? I've managed to get down to 9% by basically avoiding 'crap' food for the past 9 months... I wanna try this again to get lower than 9% but I'm freaked out about the cereal/pop tarts/pancakes etc. I was thinking I would consume a ton of dextrose/maltodextrin/sucrose friday night, then eat a ton of oats, potatoes and pasta the day after- with some chicken or turkey.

Also, do you fast on days you lift? or JUST off/cardio days? I've been thinking about incorporating fasts too.. basically pulling out all the stops. I might take some BCAAs in the morning tho.

 

[mattie o]

what does this mean: yesterday i had more calories than i had hoped, around 1900. still not bad, but not as low as i like. but i woke up REALLY hungry and feeling pretty tight...? i did a bunch of dead lifts yesterday, someone was saying that 1900 may not have been enough, and during the night my poor muscles ate everything up...???

 

[OneBreath]

One breath unreal thread bro... I've tried CKDs in the past but have always ended up moving toward TKDs with high GI carbs pw only. I generally like to eat a shit ton of veg everyday (i.e. BIG salads) which are tough to limit to 30g CHO.

Quick question tho bro... do you NEED to use processed carbos for the refeed? I've managed to get down to 9% by basically avoiding 'crap' food for the past 9 months... I wanna try this again to get lower than 9% but I'm freaked out about the cereal/pop tarts/pancakes etc. I was thinking I would consume a ton of dextrose/maltodextrin/sucrose friday night, then eat a ton of oats, potatoes and pasta the day after- with some chicken or turkey.

Also, do you fast on days you lift? or JUST off/cardio days? I've been thinking about incorporating fasts too.. basically pulling out all the stops. I might take some BCAAs in the morning tho.

You definitely don't NEED to use processed carbs. However they are better suited for the purpose of the refeed than oats and potatoes. First, the muscle glycogen uptake is faster because of the fast digestion. Second, metabolism gets an extra kick again because of the faster digestion. Third, by indulging in something fun, it helps you stay sane and strict during the week.

It's very normal to be freaked out by the idea of kids cereal and pop tarts. If you were on a normal diet then it's a terrible idea. But this in no normal diet. Your muscles are severely depleted of glycogen and your body has been running on a calorie deficit for 6 days. It's PRIMED for sugar.

But then again, forget all of that and just use the math. My daily maintenance is about 3,500 calories. 1 pound of fat is roughly 3,500 calories so in order to gain a pound of fat on the refeed i would have to eat 7,000 calories with my muscles ALREADY glycogen filled. But my muscles aren't filled, they are depleted and can hold roughly the equivalent of 850 grams of carbs (rough estimate based on LBM). 850 grams x 4 calories per gram is 3,400 calories. So in this depleted state, i can afford to eat 3,500 calories to meet my energy requirements AND ON TOP OF THAT i can afford another 3,400 calories of carbs to fill muscle glycogen for a total of 6,900 calories.

My refeed on Saturday consisted of 3 meals preceeded by a pro/fat breakfast:

Breakfast: 6 eggs and 50 grams whey ~620 cals

Meal 1: 1 box of reeses puffs cerial, 2 poptarts ~1,900 cals

Meal 2: 10 breadsticks with marinara, bowl of pasta with marinara ~ 1,600 cals

Meal 3: Half box of cinamon toast crunch, 4 poptarts, 3 nonfat chocolate brownies with ~2 cups lowfat ice cream. ~2,200 cals

Total calories ~6,320. My max would have been 6,900.

I could have eaten oats and potatoes but it wouldn't have been half as fun

For fasting, i only fast on cardio and off days. I lift in the morning so i actually do go to the gym on an empty stomach but take in my protein shake immediately PWO. It wouldn't hurt to have some BCAAs in my workout drink and i'll probably add that next week.

Good luck with you diet and feel free to ask any questions. We are all learning here. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[OneBreath]

what does this mean: yesterday i had more calories than i had hoped, around 1900. still not bad, but not as low as i like. but i woke up REALLY hungry and feeling pretty tight...? i did a bunch of dead lifts yesterday, someone was saying that 1900 may not have been enough, and during the night my poor muscles ate everything up...???

On days that i lift i try to get in about 300 more calories than on days i'm just doing cardio or taking off. If you are doing deadlifts or squats then that will burn crap tons of calories during the workout and after while rebuilding muscle. So at 1900 you most likely created a large energy deficit with the deadlifts.

Well done.

 

[steve_m33]

Thanks bro plan on starting this next week... just picked up Lyle's guide too which should be a good read. I'm gonna use his version of the diet because as far as I know the guy is HUGE into research and most of his stuff "sounds" legit. I read over the AD by Mauro DiPasquale but he seems a lot more loose... and loose + cereal ice cream pop tarts and beer could be bad haha.

I'll def keep you guys posted - I got used to daily macro/calorie tracking over the last little while and I actually like nerding out about it once progress shows so this should be dope.

Probably won't follow the workout template tho - I'm running a pretty good mix of lactate inducing/heavy lifting sessions already.

OneBreath how does Skip's version of the CKD differ from Lyle's?

 

[OneBreath]

Thanks bro plan on starting this next week... just picked up Lyle's guide too which should be a good read. I'm gonna use his version of the diet because as far as I know the guy is HUGE into research and most of his stuff "sounds" legit. I read over the AD by Mauro DiPasquale but he seems a lot more loose... and loose + cereal ice cream pop tarts and beer could be bad haha.

I'll def keep you guys posted - I got used to daily macro/calorie tracking over the last little while and I actually like nerding out about it once progress shows so this should be dope.

Probably won't follow the workout template tho - I'm running a pretty good mix of lactate inducing/heavy lifting sessions already.

OneBreath how does Skip's version of the CKD differ from Lyle's?

Skip doesn't really do a CKD per se. He deals with each client on an individual basis. From what i gather, most still take in carbs during the week around workouts and then have a massive refeed day as well. He has stated that you don't need to be "severely" depleted for the refeed to be effective.

I read lyle's Ketogenic Diet book and most of what i've done is how he lays it out in the book but using skip style refeeds. Lyle actually briefly comments on the use of high gi carbs during the refeed and how this might be beneficial. He doesn't get into much detail with it though.

One difference this time around is that i'm not starting the refeed on friday night (as lyle has it layed out). I think i was taking in too much that way so i've shortened the window to saturday around 1PM to that night.

I did the anabolic diet last year and while i got great results, the 2 day refeed with fat was too much for me. My experience this year is much cleaner.

Good luck!

 

[steve_m33]

Beauty thanks again

 

[mattie o]

ok. for some reason the last 3 days ive been RAVENOUS. its been really easy to keep my calories low, but not the last few days. its either a: monthly intruder, i hear that your hungrier during this time, ironwings, do you find that to be true? b: im taking one less ephedrine per day or c: im gaining muscle like crazy and need more friggin food. any thoughts?

by the way, i figured out how to make whey protein cookies...not bad. i get sick of drinking the shakes sometimes. these kinda satisfy the sweet tooth a bit as well.

 

[OneBreath]

ok. for some reason the last 3 days ive been RAVENOUS. its been really easy to keep my calories low, but not the last few days. its either a: monthly intruder, i hear that your hungrier during this time, ironwings, do you find that to be true? b: im taking one less ephedrine per day or c: im gaining muscle like crazy and need more friggin food. any thoughts?

by the way, i figured out how to make whey protein cookies...not bad. i get sick of drinking the shakes sometimes. these kinda satisfy the sweet tooth a bit as well.

Post up that recipe!

I get days where i can eat everything in the house and some days i could care less. I haven't really been able to tie it to much other than doing legs and back.

 

[mattie o]

ok, seriously all i did was take 2 scoops of protein, a tbsp of butter, and a TINY bit of water (just add a few drops gradually until it makes sort of a dough) and roll it into 4 little balls and microwave for 30 seconds....im still trying to tweak it a bit for maximum cookie-ness.

 

[marcu_s]

ok, seriously all i did was take 2 scoops of protein, a tbsp of butter, and a TINY bit of water (just add a few drops gradually until it makes sort of a dough) and roll it into 4 little balls and microwave for 30 seconds....im still trying to tweak it a bit for maximum cookie-ness.

that sounds good. ill try that today!

 

[ironwings]

Awesome girl! Keep pushing that weight!

Update on my CKD this go round. I'm almost two weeks in and down 5lbs. Calories are pretty low - 1350 on cardio days and 1550 on training days but feels sufficient. My refeed Saturday went well (same as OB's but less calories) and actually lost a lb that day - LOL. Water in take has been about a gallon or a little more each day. Workouts are going well - I'm not lifting heavy at all. Doing tons of legs and high intensity circuits 4x week. It is going much better this go round. Last time I was trying to over train on a cutting diet and my body said "no". I am taking it much easier, cardio once a day instead of twice and 40 minute training sessions and my body is responding well.

I'm looking ahead to a nice week of being "off" in August and then doing some detox from the crap I am filling myself with!

Seems everyone is well...

 

[mattie o]

here are some progress photos i took this morning. i cant beleive the back of my legs look like that! sweeeeeeeeeeet!

 

[OneBreath]

here are some progress photos i took this morning. i cant beleive the back of my legs look like that! sweeeeeeeeeeet!

Those deadlifts are paying off bigtime. Your entire posterior chain is kicking ass. I didn't know you had that much muscle on you. Wow. Have you ever considered competing?

 

[mattie o]

you know, scott asked me that same thing today i dont know, not really...i suppose im considering it now! hehe i feel like i have a LONG way to go before i would compete...plus, i have a full tattoo sleeve on my left arm and half a sleeve on my right, scott was saying you get marked down for that? guess id have to make up for it elsewhere! if i could just get these damn abs where they need to be...

 

[OneBreath]

you know, scott asked me that same thing today i dont know, not really...i suppose im considering it now! hehe i feel like i have a LONG way to go before i would compete...plus, i have a full tattoo sleeve on my left arm and half a sleeve on my right, scott was saying you get marked down for that? guess id have to make up for it elsewhere! if i could just get these damn abs where they need to be...

I really don't know much about it. That's kind of shitty if they mark down for tatoos.

You definitely seem to have the muscle but you would have to maintain a strict diet during the 12 or so weeks of contest prep. That would be miserable i think.

 

[mattie o]

i know, that would be rough. scott did a contest one time. he said the 12 weeks before were pretty gnarly. i wonder if he still has that little blue speedo....hehe

 

[Sodam Yat]

OneBreath...

I started the diet yesterday, woke up, and already lost 5lbs. I'm assuming it's water. But, it counts because my pot belly shrunk like hell.

Anyways, what happens when I go off this diet? When I accomplished my goal? If I stick to a low to Moderate calorie diet, will I be good(No weight gain)

I know better than to go back to the way I ate BEFORE I gained.

I'd like answers from other people as well who went through this.

 

[OneBreath]

OneBreath...

I started the diet yesterday, woke up, and already lost 5lbs. I'm assuming it's water. But, it counts because my pot belly shrunk like hell.

Anyways, what happens when I go off this diet? When I accomplished my goal? If I stick to a low to Moderate calorie diet, will I be good(No weight gain)

I know better than to go back to the way I ate BEFORE I gained.

I'd like answers from other people as well who went through this.

It was all water but it still feels great doesn't it! You'll go through the same thing after the weekly refeed. The amount of water you hold will be in direct proportion to the amount of carbs you take in as well as the amount of muscle mass you have to hold the glycogen.

So when you go off of the diet you will gain back water in proportion to the amount of carbs you add back to your diet. You will not gain fat unless you add calories over the amount you expend.

However, when we humans come off of a diet we tend to "subconsciously" add more calories and this is the dreaded rebound. In my opinion, the rebound from this diet is potentially no worse than any other diet that restricts what you eat. As long as you are vigilant in monitoring your caloric intake you will be fine.

 

[ironwings]

here are some progress photos i took this morning. i cant beleive the back of my legs look like that! sweeeeeeeeeeet!

You look GREAT! Keep it up!

 

[mattie o]

thanks ironwings! im so proud! i posted these on facebook as well...people are so narrow minded. i keep getting messages like "your gonna look like a dude" and "careful, your gonna kill yourself" and "are you juicin?" so annoying. no, people, just because i actually get off my ass and get into some fitness doesnt mean i use steroids. come on. i dont have a beard.

 

[OneBreath]

thanks ironwings! im so proud! i posted these on facebook as well...people are so narrow minded. i keep getting messages like "your gonna look like a dude" and "careful, your gonna kill yourself" and "are you juicin?" so annoying. no, people, just because i actually get off my ass and get into some fitness doesnt mean i use steroids. come on. i dont have a beard.

lol. This is all translated as "there must be some reason that i'm a fatass and you look great, oh yeah, you must be cheating or on the verge of killing yourself to look that way. Yeah that's it, now i can be comfortable with being a fatass for a little while longer. Please take my abrasiveness as a hint that i don't like you reminding me that i'm a fatass so either don't post pictures or start becoming a lazy, bitter fatass like me".

What i despise is being in a store and some drunken slob at the checkout says "workout much?" in a snotty tone. As if i'm the freak and he's the norm. Unfortunately here in the great big fat united states he's probably right.

I just realized that their bitterness just turned me equally bitter towards them. That makes me even more bitter lol.

 

[mattie o]

i know, when i was reading your post i was saying, ya!...thats f***ing right, dude!" haha, it does make me kinda bitter. o well, f*** em.

 

[mattie o]

heres a question: what kinds of things do you guys eat BEFORE your depletion workout? do you just eat as normal, or not eat as much...? just curious.

 

[REFORMATA]

OB

You are SO on point bro

I literally had that exact thing happen to me


I was like..mm..yes in fact, I do workout.


In my mind, I was thinking


"and you SHOULD"

Lol

 

[uamaverick]

Yo OneBreath and Ironwings I'm starting a CKD on Sunday. I've been on a bulk cycle for the last 2 months and had good success with that, gaining 25 lbs. OB have any of your lifts dropped significantly (more than 10 lbs)? I don't want to freak out thinking my lifts are dropping too much when they aren't.

 

[OneBreath]

what's up bros, just got back from getting married yesterday. Luckily she didn't run out on me.

ua, to be honest, my lifts didn't go down one lb. Most increased. I DC train though which is very low volume and high intensity. Because it is low volume less glycogen gets used which is great when you are depleting carbs. If you train high volume i think you will suffer a bit but not to much. Be sure the refeeds are big and you shouldn't have any issues. The more glycogen you can stuff in your muscles during those refeeds the better those workouts will be during the week.

 

[sirmannyp]

I plan on starting CKD soon as well, I just got done bulking too. Can you help us out with some meal ideas/recipes? I tend to get hungry at about 230 or 3 pm while at work. So easy things would be great!

 

[uamaverick]

Allright I just got done punching everything in on fitday. I honestly can't see where all the fat is supposed to come from without buying EFAs, but screw it I'm gonna stick with what I got for the first week and then adjust if needed. It comes out to almost exactly 50/50 on the protein/fat ratio. I'm going to keep it pretty simple for now -- I'm using your ideas for that TEAMSKIP pudding and shake, and everything else is just chicken, salmon, a little bit of olive oil, and ANPB.

Honestly the only thing I'm going to miss while doing this is milk. I literally have been drinking almost an entire gallon of whole milk every day for the past 2 months on my bulk. My roommate looks at me in awe and says he's never seen anybody drink milk like I do. I'm going to miss it.

 

[OneBreath]

Allright I just got done punching everything in on fitday. I honestly can't see where all the fat is supposed to come from without buying EFAs, but screw it I'm gonna stick with what I got for the first week and then adjust if needed. It comes out to almost exactly 50/50 on the protein/fat ratio. I'm going to keep it pretty simple for now -- I'm using your ideas for that TEAMSKIP pudding and shake, and everything else is just chicken, salmon, a little bit of olive oil, and ANPB.

Honestly the only thing I'm going to miss while doing this is milk. I literally have been drinking almost an entire gallon of whole milk every day for the past 2 months on my bulk. My roommate looks at me in awe and says he's never seen anybody drink milk like I do. I'm going to miss it.

Damn, i bet just going from 1 gallon of milk to no milk will shrink your midsection fast. Unless you are genetically gifted in the milk digestion area. Last year i drank around 3/4 of a gallon of full fat milk each day during a bulk and damn if i didn't bloat up fast. I just can't digest it that well. It sits on my stomach. For my refeeds i even switched from using skim milk in my cerial to protein drinks to mimic the milk.

As far as the fat goes definitely don't worry about it. When i first started i was a nazi about getting those ratios just right. I've since realized that its all very individualistic. Some will do fine on less fat, others will need more to keep from feeling like complete hell. You'll know by the end of the first week what you need.

My only suggestion is on the day after the refeed, take in extra fat. Ideally saturated fat. Like big steaks and eggs. This gets me back in ketosis quicker and makes the transition back to low carb much easier.

 

[marcu_s]

what's up bros, just got back from getting married yesterday. Luckily she didn't run out on me.

congrats.

 

[uamaverick]

Yeah I've been holding that milk. I'm starting to look like Lee Priest on his bulk, lol.

 

[mattie o]

hi married peeps! glad your back

 

[uamaverick]

A little update before I go into my first refeed. I've had a pretty crappy week so far. I had to eat at a restaurant yesterday for my mom AND I haven't been getting enough calories in. I don't know what my ketone levels are, probably nothing since I had a lot of carbs yesterday. Today and tomorrow will be good solid days, and then I'll do a refeed Friday night and part of Saturday.

I just measured and I dropped about one inch off my waist. That's to be expected, since I was going on close to a gallon of milk a day to nothing. Last night at Church a few girls said I looked different, so I'm guessing that means I dropped a little water retention off of my face. It's hard to tell for me since I see myself everyday. Other than that no changes. My lifts went up this week, and I'll try to fit in an extra workout tomorrow (usually do 4 a week, going for all 5 this week).

Next week I'm going to do it hardcore style. Nothing but lean meats, olive oil, ANPB, whey, and maybe some eggs here and there.

As far as cravings go I haven't had much problem, but maybe that's because I had a lot of carbs yesterday at the restaurant. I'll tell you though, I really want to make myself a huge bowl of cheese grits a la Ronnie Coleman. I can't wait for that tomorrow night. I had gotten used to eating like three bowls of that a day when I was bulking, and it tastes awesome.

 

[ironwings]

Welcome to CKD!

Just as a note while on the CKD I lower my training expectations. Not that you can't lift heavy or even increase strength but my body did much better when I laid off and followed a high intensity program. The first CKD I did I killed myself in the gym - an suffered for it.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Like OneBreath said, don't worry about the fats. The second time I did this diet as prep I didn't count a thing. I had learned from my previous cycle how much and what I needed to eat. I was way more relaxed and had much better response. My only hard core rule was absolutely no starches. No matter what - during the week cycle. Sometimes diets like these can put our bodies in fight or flight mode (triggers stress response). If you find that happening, tier back your training and relax a bit about your numbers.

Glad your here!

 

[uamaverick]

My workout today was pretty rough. I was sweating buckets the entire time for no reason, but at least my strength was good. I was even sweating a lot just walking across campus today, which is weird. Is it normal to sweat so much on CKD?

 

[ironwings]

Although I never personally experienced sweating while on CKD or during refeeds, having low blood sugar (which more than likely you do if you are in ketosis AND are training like crazy) can cause excess sweating. You may also sweat during refeeds as your blood sugar rises. I wouldn't think anything of it unless it becomes overly bothersome. In that case I would suggest you take a blood glucose test (finger prick - you can buy the gadget at a drug store) to ensure your levels are not too low or high to impeed your health.

Hang in there sweaty.

 

[ososos]

Sorry if my question has already been asked and answered on this thread, but I'm just wondering, on workout days no fats at all, all day or just after the workout, and just healthy fats? or all sorts of fats? thanks in advance.

 

[ososos]

Bump.

While on CKD, do I not eat fats right after the workout or just after I worked out untill I sleep?

 

[ironwings]

ososos - fats are part of the diet every day with exception to your refeed.

Any fats that you chose are fine. Certainly if you are choosing this as a lifestyle diet you want to avoid damaging fats. I typically run this diet for 4 or 5 weeks and include things that I would never eat otherwise like cheese, bacon, sausage etc. If I were running it longer I would avoid those and stick with olive oil and fat from red meat. No nitrates or dairy.

You consume fats with every meal. Each meal should have protein, fat and a few carbs (under 20g a day). It has nothing to do with when you workout or timing of your meals. Ideally, this would be well distributed throughout the day - otherwise you WILL feel like crude.

On refeed day the goal is to have high carbs (in the form of sugar) with very little fat.

Hope that helps....

 

[ososos]

ososos - fats are part of the diet every day with exception to your refeed.

Any fats that you chose are fine. Certainly if you are choosing this as a lifestyle diet you want to avoid damaging fats. I typically run this diet for 4 or 5 weeks and include things that I would never eat otherwise like cheese, bacon, sausage etc. If I were running it longer I would avoid those and stick with olive oil and fat from red meat. No nitrates or dairy.

You consume fats with every meal. Each meal should have protein, fat and a few carbs (under 20g a day). It has nothing to do with when you workout or timing of your meals. Ideally, this would be well distributed throughout the day - otherwise you WILL feel like crude.

On refeed day the goal is to have high carbs (in the form of sugar) with very little fat.

Hope that helps....

That does help, thank you. But what I meant was, on the 5th post, it says not to eat fat after working out, because it may slow protein going into my body, while my body needs it most, would that mean on workout days I only eat proteins after I work out and fats before I do, as for the fats I'm trying to keep it as clean as possible.

 

[ironwings]

You may want to have protein after working out and then an hour later enjoy a full meal. I'm not a firm believer of eating prior to the workout - you know your body best though and if you need some fat prior to the workout - go for it!

 

[ososos]

You may want to have protein after working out and then an hour later enjoy a full meal. I'm not a firm believer of eating prior to the workout - you know your body best though and if you need some fat prior to the workout - go for it!

Thanks a lot

 

[REFORMATA]

Ironwings--how are you and OB? And WHERE IS OB?

I've been cycling back and forth between a CKD for 3 weeks..and a TKD for 3 weeks. Its really dramatically changed my body composition-and I am learning soo much as well!

Are you very knowledgeable about the TKD? I'm wondering what's the BEST way to tackle it. I usually only have say, a cup of oatmeal after a workout. And then for a really heavy (let's say deadlift day) have 8 oz of 100 percent fruit juice, and yams or oatmeal postworkout (after my shake of course!)

So what do you think? ALSO did yall ever take those 'contest' pics? Sorry if I just missed them..anyway, take care!

 

[ironwings]

OB and I are great! He'll be back soon. We are launching a business and supplement so things have been a bit crazy.

I've never had the need for TKD so I'm not the best to ask. I know it is used a lot for contest prep but my workouts never suffered from a CKD protocol. I structured them so they went right along with my diet. My only thought would be to add more raw fruits and veggies as your pre and post carb source. Raw juices are great for this - you can cram spinach, grapes, strawberries, an apple or whatever else (I like pineapple juice and avocados) into a heavy duty blender and it taste great and you are leaving the grains alone. I feel much better when I go this route than use oatmeal and yams. Matter of fact, I haven't ate either for almost 6 months now.

Both OB and I experimenting with our own protocol. We are insane that way. He has been following a more Paleo type diet for weeks now and is interestingly enough experiencing amazing results. His strength continues to sky rocket and he continues to lose fat - in stubborn places (not that he has any freakin' fat). It is kinda like a Paleo Cyclic Ketogenic Crossfit Wendler Protocol. Don't ask ;-)

So how is the TKD coming along for you. You should see results - if you don't - you need to change what you are doing. Easier said then done I know.

We had a great photo shoot. My avi is one of the shots- I'll post more later. There are some pics from our wedding in my profile.

Share more with us about the TKD as you learn how your body responds!

 

[OneBreath]

Ironwings--how are you and OB? And WHERE IS OB?

I've been cycling back and forth between a CKD for 3 weeks..and a TKD for 3 weeks. Its really dramatically changed my body composition-and I am learning soo much as well!

Are you very knowledgeable about the TKD? I'm wondering what's the BEST way to tackle it. I usually only have say, a cup of oatmeal after a workout. And then for a really heavy (let's say deadlift day) have 8 oz of 100 percent fruit juice, and yams or oatmeal postworkout (after my shake of course!)

So what do you think? ALSO did yall ever take those 'contest' pics? Sorry if I just missed them..anyway, take care!

What's up? Glad you are still on keto. Personally the TKD never worked for me because once i had those carbs my body just kept craving. Like if i had some oatmeal PWO, i would be starving by my next meal (which would be meat and fat). After that meal i would still be starving, like my body was doing "oh hell no, give me that sugar".

I'm still on CKD. I feel like i'm honing in on my refeeds each week. Last 2 weeks i've been eating 2 boxes of fresh backed snickerdoodle cookies from Fresh Market (no preservatives). One thing i've noticed is that sticking with basic foods (less chemicals) does the trick for me. If i have icecream, it's Haagen-Daz 5 which only has the basic ingredients like it was homemade (SKIM MILK, CREAM, SUGAR, EGG YOLKS, VANILLA (VANILLA BEAN FLAKES, VANILLA EXTRACT)

Keep it clean with the ingredients and you body will reward by letting go.

 

[REFORMATA]

Ironwings--thankyou, ill try the shake. A buddy of mine and I used to make one almost identical with spinach, avocados, various fruits, and aloe vera juice. (Delicious!)

So I am curious about OBs protocol..what exactly is this Paleo program? Also to OB, what does your whole refeed look like now, in its evolved state? And what have your fat/protein meals become? I've been doing a lot of chicken, cheese, tuna, ham (not a lot), salmon (!), and of course ANPB and eeeegs!

Okay IW (ironwings), a specific question for you. I've read some of your posts, you mentioned I believe increasing intensity, and lowering volume--as in a more DC style approach. Is that what you mean when you say you structured your workouts to go right along with your refeeds? Do you just place your (heavier) days around your refeeds, and stick to cardio the rest of the week? Please give me an example of what this would look like..thanks!

I have been doing DC style lifting 5 days a week, cardio the other two days..and its served me well! Accept, I'm on cycle right now..so I'm worried about keeping my regimine this way (lifting heavy NOT around refeeds) when I come off.

And you two are starting a business? Too cool. Best of luck to you both!

 

[ironwings]

Just wanted to let you know I have read your post. Today I have clients all day and will be heading out of town but as soon as I get settled I'l reply in more depth.

Watch for Onebreaths journal. He is starting one soon here on EF and will have his workouts and diet posted. I'm sure he'll also respond here to your questions. He has an interesting approach and is working really well (energy, endurance, strength and overall health improvements).

 

[OneBreath]

Ironwings--thankyou, ill try the shake. A buddy of mine and I used to make one almost identical with spinach, avocados, various fruits, and aloe vera juice. (Delicious!)

So I am curious about OBs protocol..what exactly is this Paleo program? Also to OB, what does your whole refeed look like now, in its evolved state? And what have your fat/protein meals become? I've been doing a lot of chicken, cheese, tuna, ham (not a lot), salmon (!), and of course ANPB and eeeegs!

Okay IW (ironwings), a specific question for you. I've read some of your posts, you mentioned I believe increasing intensity, and lowering volume--as in a more DC style approach. Is that what you mean when you say you structured your workouts to go right along with your refeeds? Do you just place your (heavier) days around your refeeds, and stick to cardio the rest of the week? Please give me an example of what this would look like..thanks!

I have been doing DC style lifting 5 days a week, cardio the other two days..and its served me well! Accept, I'm on cycle right now..so I'm worried about keeping my regimine this way (lifting heavy NOT around refeeds) when I come off.

And you two are starting a business? Too cool. Best of luck to you both!

Paleo refers to the Paleolithic era (what we think of as cavemen). Things like grains, dairy, legumes (beans, including peanuts) were not available to them. In general, the diet consists of meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds.

The theory (in over simplistic form) goes that once we developed agriculture and left the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, things went downhill. One thing we know for sure is that people shrank several inches in height. It has taken us 10,000 years to gain this height back actually.

Specifically to fat storage, grains, legumes (including peanuts), and corn contain lectins that fuck with our leptin (2 le words, don't get them confused).

Leptin is a hormone stored in fat that tells your brain it's time to stop eating. The more fat you have, the more leptin to send that signal. Perfect weight loss drug for obesity right?

Here's the problem: people at a normal weight did lose more weight when injected with synthetic leptin. However, obese people did not. The reason is because they have developed resistance to the leptin. They have plenty, but the receptors are down regulated. The problem is Lectins (the other le word). The lectins from grain, beans, peanuts, corn, etc can attach to the leptin receptor and block leptin from attaching. The constant attaching causes resistance over time (just like insulin resistance).

The end result is that you never get the message to stop eating. Eat more grains, beans, corn, etc and the problem just magnifies itself.

I typed all that out really fast so it might not make a lick of sense. I've got to go out of town (like IW said) so i'll post more later.

 

[REFORMATA]

That totally makes sense..I'm anxious to hear more.

And as to the TKD..it works well for keeping my muscles fuller. Also, I don't feel (as) drained during the day. But I have also run into the issue OB spoke of. I do tend to want to cheat when I follow a tkd.

 

[crulexis]

Great thread Subd..

 

[zack!!!]

bump

 

[jdbaker82]

Do you guys only recommend this CKD diet for people with lower then say 15-20% BF? and is this diet only to strictly preserve your muscle and not gain any while your losing fat?

 

[kawikaratekid]

yeah i was doing a low carb high protien diet for several months...then decided about 4 weeks ago to go at this ketosis diet very strict.....had great results...I lost about 6%bf in 4 weeks however...back started hurting and then went to doc who said had blood in urine...probably related to a small stone....doc recommended to cut protien intake by 1/3 and leave the ketosis stuff alone for awhile...have follow up visit next week...I figure i just over taxed my kidneys. NOt saying this will happen to everyone..just wanted people to know not smart to do it for long periods of time

What was your water intake like while doing this?

 

[kawikaratekid]

Do you guys only recommend this CKD diet for people with lower then say 15-20% BF? and is this diet only to strictly preserve your muscle and not gain any while your losing fat?

This diet can be used by anybody, it doesn't matter what your body fat levels are. Once you get below 10% it may take some more manipulation with cardio and nutrients taken in though....When you're in a caloric deficit you will not gain large amounts of muscle. On this diet you will preserve muscle rather than using it for fuel.

 

[uamaverick]

Time for a bump/mini gravedig. I started another CKD yesterday. So far so good. Feeling pretty wobbly already. I can still taste those 5 tbsp of fish oil I had 3 hours ago lol. I haven't been gotten any ketostix yet, but I'm going tomorrow to get some. 36 hours into the CKD, I doubt I'm in ketosis yet.

I haven't completely dialed in my refeed yet, but I'm pretty locked in during the week. I'm terrible with updating (I update my log like 4 times a year heh), but I'll check back in next week.

 

[mattie o]

wow! WOW! it has been damn near a year since ive been in here...i just re read this whole thread.

A LOT has happened in the past year! wow, i have learned a ton. god my posts were annoying.

so i am doing a CDK again. as you can see by my avitar, i did do a bodybuilding competition (onebreath, i think i saw a post from a long time ago where you asked if i had ever considered it), and it was a great experience. nothing like 13 weeks of pure unbridled torture the competition was March 27th, i began my prep Jan 2.

altho i didnt really come in here much anymore, i did continue to carb cycle, altho between the months of my last post on here and January, the whole program was less than honorable...i was always doing SOMETHING, but perhaps not always doing it RIGHT...ie, no cardio at all...taking the whole WEEK of christmas off of any sort of program...ya know.

but whatev. the competition did wonders for me, i made some REALLY good habits during that time, and now am excited to do the ol CKD again - CORRECTLY - and enjoy some recomp im also trying some other new things, if you poke around in the womens section, im sure youll see.

good times, good times.

so: after re reading my posts in this thread, here is what happened last time:

-low carb monday thru friday, eat a bunch of shit and probably drink a few drinks saturday and sunday
-lift 3x per week, one day for upper, one day for lower, one depletion work out, little to no cardio.

aaaaaaaand heres whats gonna happen this time:

-low carb monday thru satruday, CARB UP sunday (maybe occasionally saturday evening)

-5 days of lifting - monday back, tues chest, wed legs, thurs abs, fri arms/shoulders. (this is what ive been doing since jan, works well for me)

-1 hour of cardio every single day, in the morning on an empty stomach. remember i said i made some good habits during contest prep? this is one of them. may as well keep doing it, im used to it, and its a total mindfuck if i miss one of my am cardio sessions...plus, i got pretty friggin lean for the show, and am still only at 13% right now, and ill be damned if any unescessary fat is gonna come back on my body.

-cleaner eating: sometimes, during the low carb phase before, there were processed meats, ect..but im gonna just stick to cleaner more natural foods this time around. i have learned to love all natural pb as much as i love skippy. also, the booze: for one reason or another the thought of hard liquor GAGS me (not a bad thing) and i noticed in alot of my old posts...well, moonshine, mai thais, margaritas...ya. not happening this time. i might - MAYBE - have a glass of red wine once in a while.

-supps: going to try some new things. still researching. right now im taking the EC stack again (only becuase i have the appetite of a lumberjack), CLA, Chromium, Flax, and a Multi.

so there you have it kids. a new and improved mattie o, back in action! im gonna do this diet for a while. am i bulking or cutting? not sure yet. will i do another show? probably, it was really fun. did i feel that last time i did this diet, it worked, despite my hedonistic ways? sure. but im really looking forward to this time, see what happens when i do it 110%! plus, im in the best shape ive ever been in to start with, thanks to Novice Womens Heavyweight, so im excited to see what happens.

 

[gt40racer]

It looks like i'm going to be in a photoshoot with Ironwings and she's all cut to shit. So my ass has about 5 weeks to drop ~3% BF, and i don't want to lose any muscle.

So i've got my numbers calculated and i'm going to need 52 grams of protein and 62 grams of fat per meal. I'm playing around in excel and its difficult to get this ratio just right. I'm coming up with good meals but i'm always having to add 1 or 2 tablespoons of olive oil to hit the fat total and not mess up the protein total.

I'm not too picky so any suggestions are welcome. Also anyone who's had success with CKDs feel free to offer any general suggestions. I did the anabolic diet last year but didn't really pay close attention to the ratios. Since i'm on a tight schedule here, i want to do this thing right.

Thanks!

Egg whites have been the main portion of my diet.

Also I marinate some chicken in garlic olive oil and lemon pepper seasoning, with a little salt. I must say its pretty good.

 

[Babyboy4321]

Were can I get any books or info on the ckd ?