So I'm thinking about starting a CKD, i need some meal ideas.

[mattie o]

what does this mean: yesterday i had more calories than i had hoped, around 1900. still not bad, but not as low as i like. but i woke up REALLY hungry and feeling pretty tight...? i did a bunch of dead lifts yesterday, someone was saying that 1900 may not have been enough, and during the night my poor muscles ate everything up...???

 

[OneBreath]

One breath unreal thread bro... I've tried CKDs in the past but have always ended up moving toward TKDs with high GI carbs pw only. I generally like to eat a shit ton of veg everyday (i.e. BIG salads) which are tough to limit to 30g CHO.

Quick question tho bro... do you NEED to use processed carbos for the refeed? I've managed to get down to 9% by basically avoiding 'crap' food for the past 9 months... I wanna try this again to get lower than 9% but I'm freaked out about the cereal/pop tarts/pancakes etc. I was thinking I would consume a ton of dextrose/maltodextrin/sucrose friday night, then eat a ton of oats, potatoes and pasta the day after- with some chicken or turkey.

Also, do you fast on days you lift? or JUST off/cardio days? I've been thinking about incorporating fasts too.. basically pulling out all the stops. I might take some BCAAs in the morning tho.

You definitely don't NEED to use processed carbs. However they are better suited for the purpose of the refeed than oats and potatoes. First, the muscle glycogen uptake is faster because of the fast digestion. Second, metabolism gets an extra kick again because of the faster digestion. Third, by indulging in something fun, it helps you stay sane and strict during the week.

It's very normal to be freaked out by the idea of kids cereal and pop tarts. If you were on a normal diet then it's a terrible idea. But this in no normal diet. Your muscles are severely depleted of glycogen and your body has been running on a calorie deficit for 6 days. It's PRIMED for sugar.

But then again, forget all of that and just use the math. My daily maintenance is about 3,500 calories. 1 pound of fat is roughly 3,500 calories so in order to gain a pound of fat on the refeed i would have to eat 7,000 calories with my muscles ALREADY glycogen filled. But my muscles aren't filled, they are depleted and can hold roughly the equivalent of 850 grams of carbs (rough estimate based on LBM). 850 grams x 4 calories per gram is 3,400 calories. So in this depleted state, i can afford to eat 3,500 calories to meet my energy requirements AND ON TOP OF THAT i can afford another 3,400 calories of carbs to fill muscle glycogen for a total of 6,900 calories.

My refeed on Saturday consisted of 3 meals preceeded by a pro/fat breakfast:

Breakfast: 6 eggs and 50 grams whey ~620 cals

Meal 1: 1 box of reeses puffs cerial, 2 poptarts ~1,900 cals

Meal 2: 10 breadsticks with marinara, bowl of pasta with marinara ~ 1,600 cals

Meal 3: Half box of cinamon toast crunch, 4 poptarts, 3 nonfat chocolate brownies with ~2 cups lowfat ice cream. ~2,200 cals

Total calories ~6,320. My max would have been 6,900.

I could have eaten oats and potatoes but it wouldn't have been half as fun

For fasting, i only fast on cardio and off days. I lift in the morning so i actually do go to the gym on an empty stomach but take in my protein shake immediately PWO. It wouldn't hurt to have some BCAAs in my workout drink and i'll probably add that next week.

Good luck with you diet and feel free to ask any questions. We are all learning here. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[OneBreath]

what does this mean: yesterday i had more calories than i had hoped, around 1900. still not bad, but not as low as i like. but i woke up REALLY hungry and feeling pretty tight...? i did a bunch of dead lifts yesterday, someone was saying that 1900 may not have been enough, and during the night my poor muscles ate everything up...???

On days that i lift i try to get in about 300 more calories than on days i'm just doing cardio or taking off. If you are doing deadlifts or squats then that will burn crap tons of calories during the workout and after while rebuilding muscle. So at 1900 you most likely created a large energy deficit with the deadlifts.

Well done.

 

[steve_m33]

Thanks bro plan on starting this next week... just picked up Lyle's guide too which should be a good read. I'm gonna use his version of the diet because as far as I know the guy is HUGE into research and most of his stuff "sounds" legit. I read over the AD by Mauro DiPasquale but he seems a lot more loose... and loose + cereal ice cream pop tarts and beer could be bad haha.

I'll def keep you guys posted - I got used to daily macro/calorie tracking over the last little while and I actually like nerding out about it once progress shows so this should be dope.

Probably won't follow the workout template tho - I'm running a pretty good mix of lactate inducing/heavy lifting sessions already.

OneBreath how does Skip's version of the CKD differ from Lyle's?

 

[OneBreath]

Thanks bro plan on starting this next week... just picked up Lyle's guide too which should be a good read. I'm gonna use his version of the diet because as far as I know the guy is HUGE into research and most of his stuff "sounds" legit. I read over the AD by Mauro DiPasquale but he seems a lot more loose... and loose + cereal ice cream pop tarts and beer could be bad haha.

I'll def keep you guys posted - I got used to daily macro/calorie tracking over the last little while and I actually like nerding out about it once progress shows so this should be dope.

Probably won't follow the workout template tho - I'm running a pretty good mix of lactate inducing/heavy lifting sessions already.

OneBreath how does Skip's version of the CKD differ from Lyle's?

Skip doesn't really do a CKD per se. He deals with each client on an individual basis. From what i gather, most still take in carbs during the week around workouts and then have a massive refeed day as well. He has stated that you don't need to be "severely" depleted for the refeed to be effective.

I read lyle's Ketogenic Diet book and most of what i've done is how he lays it out in the book but using skip style refeeds. Lyle actually briefly comments on the use of high gi carbs during the refeed and how this might be beneficial. He doesn't get into much detail with it though.

One difference this time around is that i'm not starting the refeed on friday night (as lyle has it layed out). I think i was taking in too much that way so i've shortened the window to saturday around 1PM to that night.

I did the anabolic diet last year and while i got great results, the 2 day refeed with fat was too much for me. My experience this year is much cleaner.

Good luck!

 

[steve_m33]

Beauty thanks again

 

[mattie o]

ok. for some reason the last 3 days ive been RAVENOUS. its been really easy to keep my calories low, but not the last few days. its either a: monthly intruder, i hear that your hungrier during this time, ironwings, do you find that to be true? b: im taking one less ephedrine per day or c: im gaining muscle like crazy and need more friggin food. any thoughts?

by the way, i figured out how to make whey protein cookies...not bad. i get sick of drinking the shakes sometimes. these kinda satisfy the sweet tooth a bit as well.

 

[OneBreath]

ok. for some reason the last 3 days ive been RAVENOUS. its been really easy to keep my calories low, but not the last few days. its either a: monthly intruder, i hear that your hungrier during this time, ironwings, do you find that to be true? b: im taking one less ephedrine per day or c: im gaining muscle like crazy and need more friggin food. any thoughts?

by the way, i figured out how to make whey protein cookies...not bad. i get sick of drinking the shakes sometimes. these kinda satisfy the sweet tooth a bit as well.

Post up that recipe!

I get days where i can eat everything in the house and some days i could care less. I haven't really been able to tie it to much other than doing legs and back.

 

[mattie o]

ok, seriously all i did was take 2 scoops of protein, a tbsp of butter, and a TINY bit of water (just add a few drops gradually until it makes sort of a dough) and roll it into 4 little balls and microwave for 30 seconds....im still trying to tweak it a bit for maximum cookie-ness.

 

[marcu_s]

ok, seriously all i did was take 2 scoops of protein, a tbsp of butter, and a TINY bit of water (just add a few drops gradually until it makes sort of a dough) and roll it into 4 little balls and microwave for 30 seconds....im still trying to tweak it a bit for maximum cookie-ness.

that sounds good. ill try that today!