PROOF? You Decide.

[Ralph_Wiggum]

Let me chime in here...

Nelson is correct, weight-training(done properly) is more effective for fat loss than cardio alone.

Cardio ONLY BURNS CALORIES WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. Weight-training elevates the metabolism for 72 hours. Furthermore, muscle-mass increases the rate of calorie expidenture, so as you build muscle, you inevitably lose fat(if done peroperly)

However, for the serious bodybuilder trying to reach low single BF% digits without LOSING MUSCLE MASS(by restricting calories), LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO is absolutely necessary.

For me, that simply means 25 minutes of WALKING POST WORKOUT. Usually, on a slight incline at about 4 MPH. RUNNING is OFF LIMITS and is simply NOT part of the complex bodybuilding equation.

The ULTIMATE solution for fat-loss is a fully comprehensive program that includes weight-training and LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO.

Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions about which burns more calories after the exercise, but again, there is only so much time per week you can weightlift before you get to the overtraining point. There is also a limit as to how far you can limit calories. To gain more of a calorie deficit per week, adding cardio ( I wish I was lucky like you and get away w/ low intensity) is the option IMO.

I don't buy into the whole 'fat burning zone' theory w/ regards to cardio. If it exists, cool, but all I care about is total calories I burn per week. If it means doing cardio plus Nelson's type of training, then BRING IT ON LETS DO THIS SHIT! I'd be all ears.

 

[eddymerckx]

Let me chime in here...

Nelson is correct, weight-training(done properly) is more effective for fat loss than cardio alone.

Cardio ONLY BURNS CALORIES WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. Weight-training elevates the metabolism for 72 hours. Furthermore, muscle-mass increases the rate of calorie expidenture, so as you build muscle, you inevitably lose fat(if done peroperly)

However, for the serious bodybuilder trying to reach low single BF% digits without LOSING MUSCLE MASS(by restricting calories), LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO is absolutely necessary.

For me, that simply means 25 minutes of WALKING POST WORKOUT. Usually, on a slight incline at about 4 MPH. RUNNING is OFF LIMITS and is simply NOT part of the complex bodybuilding equation.

The ULTIMATE solution for fat-loss is a fully comprehensive program that includes weight-training and LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO.

you are incorrect-- HI cardio exercises crank up your metabolism long after the workout--but low intensity cardio will not.

 

[Ross]

Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions about which burns more calories after the exercise, but again, there is only so much time per week you can weightlift before you get to the overtraining point. There is also a limit as to how far you can limit calories. To gain more of a calorie deficit per week, adding cardio ( I wish I was lucky like you and get away w/ low intensity) is the option IMO.

I don't buy into the whole 'fat burning zone' theory w/ regards to cardio. If it exists, cool, but all I care about is total calories I burn per week. If it means doing cardio plus Nelson's type of training, then BRING IT ON LETS DO THIS SHIT! I'd be all ears.

Ok, let me take you to SCHOOL.

The "Fat Burning Zone" is not a THEORY, it's a SCIENTIFIC FACT. This PHYSIOLOGICAL state is conducive to FATLOSS(and potentially, muscle-loss), due to a plethora of biological variables, such as blood glucose level, glycogen stores, insulin sensitivity, cortisol levels and thoroximine levels, just to name a few.

Another Scientific FACT: *The RATE at which you perform cardio will determine the SUBSTRATE YOU USE FOR FUEL.

The higher the intensity, the more calories you burn from stored carbohydrates, and if your glycogen stores are depleted, such as in the morning upon waking or PWO, you start using MUSCLE for FUEL!

The LOWER the intensity, the more calories you burn from adipose tissue(FAT CELLS) and the less calories you burn from stores carbohydrates and muscle.

If you wake up in the morning on an empty stomach and do sprints, you will LOSE MUSCLE. If you start running around and playing basketball after a workout, you will LOSE MUSCLE. These are physiological facts.

Performing LOW INTENSITY CARDIO directly after your workout or in the morning on an empty stomach will allow you to utilize FAT for fuel, while protecting your precious muscles(and even AIDING in growth!). If you are not performing low-intensity cardio at least three times a week while CUTTING, you need to go back to SQUARE 1 my friend...


*Note: LOW INTENSITY CARDIO = walking uphill, slight jog(able to converse), very moderate boxing, or swimming in a pool.

 

[Ross]

you are incorrect-- HI cardio exercises crank up your metabolism long after the workout--but low intensity cardio will not.

YES, HIT *CARDIO will crank up your metabolism, running and jogging will NOT!!!

Weight lifting will also "crank up your metabolism".

Furthermore, HIT CARDIO must be treated(physiologically) just like a normal WORKOUT, so it must NOT be performed in a calorie defecit.

 

[ceo]

 

[Nelson Montana]

How we got into this debate, I don;t know, but it seems we're spiltting somantic hairs.

First of all EVERYTHING can be considered cardio. If it makes your heart pump faster it's cardio.

Now running sprints is not what people think of as AEROBIC exercise. So what are we really talking about here? Sure, I walk a lot, ride bike, run to catch a bus, jog across the street, play handball etc, etc. But I do not consider this a part of my training, just an active lifestyle. There's no way of gauging how effective "cardio" is when you're weight training and doing other activities.

I give numerous examples of why weight training is superior to aerobics in my book. I don't do the "cut and paste " thing every time someone screams for statistics they may find satisfactory. Cardio is a less effective form of exercise so saying that you have limited time just makes my argument stronger. Sorry if Wiggum thinks I did a poor job explaining it. Thousands of other people didn't think so. You can't make everyone happy.

 

[eddymerckx]

Regardless of some of the points made in this thread--I have treated and will continue to treat what Nelson writes as correct until proven otherwise.

his experience and achievements suggest that unless you have a solid, reasoned, and researched argument, backed-up with appropriate substantive scholarly support---and not just “bro-ology”, you should sit back and learn—not offer straw arguments or split fine semantic hairs.

 

[rudy76]

Let me chime in here...

Nelson is correct, weight-training(done properly) is more effective for fat loss than cardio alone.

Cardio ONLY BURNS CALORIES WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. Weight-training elevates the metabolism for 72 hours. Furthermore, muscle-mass increases the rate of calorie expidenture, so as you build muscle, you inevitably lose fat(if done peroperly)

However, for the serious bodybuilder trying to reach low single BF% digits without LOSING MUSCLE MASS(by restricting calories), LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO is absolutely necessary.

For me, that simply means 25 minutes of WALKING POST WORKOUT. Usually, on a slight incline at about 4 MPH. RUNNING is OFF LIMITS and is simply NOT part of the complex bodybuilding equation.

The ULTIMATE solution for fat-loss is a fully comprehensive program that includes weight-training and LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO.

I prefer a balance of overall fitness and weights / active lifestyle as compared to counting 500 burnt calories as lost muscle building opportunities.

This has been a very interesting thread. I did'nt realize all these topics could be so over analyzed just for the sake of trying to find out who's wrong.

Much of the discussion exceeds the every day life of many guys here including me.

 

[chazk]

Simple solution to get cardio benifits during weight training. Take short rest between sets. Go all out during each rep. Stop yacking in the gym and lift . Yes your heart rate will be elevated the entire time.
Do this just even 3 times a week you have done weight training and cardio together.

Prob is alot of guys want to loose fat way to fast . They bulk all winter and want to shed it off in 4 weeks. When all they have to do is just lower the rest time between sets and keep moving in the gym with full intensity and the fat will come off with a clean diet that is

 

[Ross]

Simple solution to get cardio benifits during weight training. Take short rest between sets. Go all out during each rep. Stop yacking in the gym and lift . Yes your heart rate will be elevated the entire time.
Do this just even 3 times a week you have done weight training and cardio together.

Prob is alot of guys want to loose fat way to fast . They bulk all winter and want to shed it off in 4 weeks. When all they have to do is just lower the rest time between sets and keep moving in the gym with full intensity and the fat will come off with a clean diet that is

Great post