PROOF? You Decide.

[Ralph_Wiggum]

I think this is something a lot of people overlook.

Personally, I don't think that taking advice from the 'genetic freaks' is always the best idea.

Genetic freaks can usually eat or train or eat any sort of diet and still put on muscle.

Those comments, 'well Jay/Ronnie/Flex did it this way', completely irrelevant to the majority of the population.

I have come to realise that the best advice and knowledge are from those who:

1. Are hardgainers/ectomorphs, have had to work hard to put on muscle (I think women are also in this category as well )

2. Have pushed their physique to the max nattie, and then used or kept it nattie

BEST thing I've read all day. Its true....you should take the advice from people with good genetics with a grain of salt.

This is the best example I can think of to illustrate your point:

When I hear Nelson talk about not doing cardio b/c it doesn't do anything but make you fat. Why would I listen to that? Nelson is either a Mesomorph who is naturally lean, or an ectomorph, who can get ripped w/o even trying. As impressive as it was to gain the muscle he gained, he never had to struggle with drastically changing his body composition through the loss of large amounts of body fat.

There is only so much a person with a sluggish metabolism can do as far as diet goes....You need your 40% protein and 20-30% EFA's, and you can't cut calories too low (not below 2000 for a male b/w 170 and 190 IMO), so once you get to that point and fat loss stops, you NEED TO INCREASE CALORIES BURNED!!! Increasing weight lifting, which doesn't burn as many calories as cardio during the activity, can lead to over training if you increase it enough to see a significant caloric deficit. This means that once you are lifting the most you can to sustain/gain muscle and have your caloric intake as low as you can have it w/o going into starvation mode, you NEED to do cardio to break through plateau's. Just saying eat less and train more is bad advice simply b/c there is no more training to add and no more deficit to go in.


sorry for the rant...the point you made about taking advice from certain people w/ certain genetics reminded me exactly of the issue above. I had to get it off my chest.

 

[Ross]

BEST thing I've read all day. Its true....you should take the advice from people with good genetics with a grain of salt.

This is the best example I can think of to illustrate your point:

When I hear Nelson talk about not doing cardio b/c it doesn't do anything but make you fat. Why would I listen to that? Nelson is either a Mesomorph who is naturally lean, or an ectomorph, who can get ripped w/o even trying. As impressive as it was to gain the muscle he gained, he never had to struggle with drastically changing his body composition through the loss of large amounts of body fat.

There is only so much a person with a sluggish metabolism can do as far as diet goes....You need your 40% protein and 20-30% EFA's, and you can't cut calories too low (not below 2000 for a male b/w 170 and 190 IMO), so once you get to that point and fat loss stops, you NEED TO INCREASE CALORIES BURNED!!! Increasing weight lifting, which doesn't burn as many calories as cardio during the activity, can lead to over training if you increase it enough to see a significant caloric deficit. This means that once you are lifting the most you can to sustain/gain muscle and have your caloric intake as low as you can have it w/o going into starvation mode, you NEED to do cardio to break through plateau's. Just saying eat less and train more is bad advice simply b/c there is no more training to add and no more deficit to go in.


sorry for the rant...the point you made about taking advice from certain people w/ certain genetics reminded me exactly of the issue above. I had to get it off my chest.

Solid post brother.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

Based on my own blood tests when experimenting with HRT for 6 months @ 100mg per week the following is what I noticed...
Total Test was close to 1000ng/dl (pre-Hrt was 500), SHBG decreased by almost 50%, LH went down to 0 and Bio-Available test increased almost 400%. If my LH was indeed 0, then it seems highly unlikely that my own nuts were putting out anything in to the mix...

Ditto to this. I had (and still have) the same results except it had no effect on my SHBG and my e levels increased dramatically.

Oh, and Nelson Montana is a fucking idiot. I don't know how this thead has reached 10 pages.

 

[JLowe02]

yea i got a buddy with lean 20 inch arms that doesnt know jack shit about juice. he owes everything he has from his parents. he looks like a beast, but you would be a complete jack ass idiot to take advice from him. Dont trust the freaks for anything.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

No fear of getting banned for stating an opinion bro. But I think you're missing the point. 100 mgs can bring you to 900, if you still have some T in you. If you were in double digits, no way. The study you cite does not show otherwise.

And Ross, yes I know there's a curve but you too keep missing the point. Why would ANYONE need more than 200mgs if it'll raise your T to that level from next to nothing? But it seems you're looking to split hairs here. Are you saying your supps won't do anything for the enhanced athlete? The ones I recommend have already proven to do so.

C3 -- glad to hear the methods are working for you. Some old, some radically new. Bottom line -- whatever works, is worthwhile.

I got into the double digits (1200+) on 100mg of T enanthate Sub-Q after 5 weeks. My baseline is 200-300. My LH and FSH were non-existant indicating that my HPTA was completly shut down. LH and FSH levels prior to T were normal.

Reading this whole thread is like watching a South Park episode.

 

[JLowe02]

funny, but ive yet to see a south park episode this entertaining

 

[eddymerckx]

I got into the double digits (1200+) on 100mg of T enanthate Sub-Q ??? after 5 weeks. My baseline is 200-300. My LH and FSH were non-existant indicating that my HPTA was completly shut down. LH and FSH levels prior to T were normal.

Reading this whole thread is like watching a South Park episode.

you did it sub q? was it the pellets or something?

 

[bigmusclehead]

Nelson, so long as you are on ANY DOSAGE OF EXOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE, your blood testosterone level is NOT NATURAL.

On 100mgs of Testosterone weekly(depending on the individual), most men will be around 600-900ng/dl. This is NOT your natural production Nelson, this is exogenous testosterone.

Come OFF for 12 weeks, get tested again, you will be LOW--VERY LOW.

hey ross whats the 600-900ng/dl coverted to si units for us canadian bros.

 

[eddymerckx]

yea i got a buddy with lean 20 inch arms that doesnt know jack shit about juice. he owes everything he has from his parents. he looks like a beast, but you would be a complete jack ass idiot to take advice from him. Dont trust the freaks for anything.

my arms way exceed 20 inches--we are talking length right?

 

[Ralph_Wiggum]

Solid post brother.

Thanks