PROOF? You Decide.

[hurricane]

Ditto to this. I had (and still have) the same results except it had no effect on my SHBG and my e levels increased dramatically.

Oh, and Nelson Montana is a fucking idiot. I don't know how this thead has reached 10 pages.

^^ i thought posts like this were a thing of the past in the gear section ? what happened guys?

 

[Tatyana]

BEST thing I've read all day. Its true....you should take the advice from people with good genetics with a grain of salt.

This is the best example I can think of to illustrate your point:

When I hear Nelson talk about not doing cardio b/c it doesn't do anything but make you fat. Why would I listen to that? Nelson is either a Mesomorph who is naturally lean, or an ectomorph, who can get ripped w/o even trying. As impressive as it was to gain the muscle he gained, he never had to struggle with drastically changing his body composition through the loss of large amounts of body fat.

There is only so much a person with a sluggish metabolism can do as far as diet goes....You need your 40% protein and 20-30% EFA's, and you can't cut calories too low (not below 2000 for a male b/w 170 and 190 IMO), so once you get to that point and fat loss stops, you NEED TO INCREASE CALORIES BURNED!!! Increasing weight lifting, which doesn't burn as many calories as cardio during the activity, can lead to over training if you increase it enough to see a significant caloric deficit. This means that once you are lifting the most you can to sustain/gain muscle and have your caloric intake as low as you can have it w/o going into starvation mode, you NEED to do cardio to break through plateau's. Just saying eat less and train more is bad advice simply b/c there is no more training to add and no more deficit to go in.


sorry for the rant...the point you made about taking advice from certain people w/ certain genetics reminded me exactly of the issue above. I had to get it off my chest.

If I remember correctly, you have completely transformed your body, and lost loads of fat.

I have seen you giving out great advice and support to others in the diet sections.

Perfect example, who are you going to listen to, someone who has never had to deal with any issues with body fat, or someone who has.

 

[eddymerckx]

Ditto to this. I had (and still have) the same results except it had no effect on my SHBG and my e levels increased dramatically.

Oh, and********** is a fucking idiot. I don't know how this thead has reached 10 pages.

this does not belong here--be civil or leave

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

you did it sub q? was it the pellets or something?

You can inject it subq with a slin pin if the oil is thin enough, just as you would hcg. I remember reading a study with hrt patients using that method instead of IM but I can't remember where it is. I just remember that the test did get in their systems.

 

[Ralph_Wiggum]

If I remember correctly, you have completely transformed your body, and lost loads of fat.

I have seen you giving out great advice and support to others in the diet sections.

Perfect example, who are you going to listen to, someone who has never had to deal with any issues with body fat, or someone who has.

Well, to be fair, I have not finished my process of transforming. I went from ~21% bodyfat last June to 13.3% as of this morning. I want to get down to either 10% or visible abs, so that means possibly lower than 10 b/c of my fat storage patterns. I want to get there for July 1st, but, we will see what the reality of the fat loss rate is when July 1st rolls around.

I just wanted to be clear on that. I'm not going to lie about my physique, and I am especially not going to be delusional to myself about my status and let my diet slip b/c of it. I still have progress to make and I will not give up until I get there.

I have yo-yo'ed b/w bodyfat levels since I started in this game years ago. I have assimilated a large amount of conflicting information that has set me back in progress, and to be fair, some of the info has helped progress. I have tried Nelson's philosophy of avoiding cardio in the name of retaining/building muscle while staying the same bodyweight to hopefully change my bodyfat percentage. TALK ABOUT LIMBO! If anything, that hurt my progress. I have learned at the cost of wasted time and life energy that Nelson's philosophy on no cardio is DEFINITELY not applicable to me.

For me, I am either building or cutting, and hopefully losing more bodyfat to muscle in the cutting process. I just have to eat clean all the time, never totally eliminate cardio, and hope that my weight gained is mostly muscle and weight lost is mostly fat. Sure, I may not be putting my body in the best environment for high test/thyroid levels through these strategies, but AT LEAST I AM GOING IN A DIRECTION. Whats the point of avoiding cardio to keep muscle and test levels if it keeps you fat?

I have seen one exception to the rule of taking advice from people with good genetics: Tom Venuto. I would recommend to anyone Tom Venuto's "Burn The Fat Feed The Muscle". He takes a MUCH better approach to the whole fitness process, talks about motivations, goals, and lifestyle. He does advocate cardio, lots of it, and it gets results. I mold many of my philosophies from his book.

 

[eddymerckx]

You can inject it subq with a slin pin if the oil is thin enough, just as you would hcg. I remember reading a study with hrt patients using that method instead of IM but I can't remember where it is. I just remember that the test did get in their systems.

did they mention how the half life and net absorbed was impacted (i assume longer and less)..but never know?

 

[Nelson Montana]

BEST thing I've read all day. Its true....you should take the advice from people with good genetics with a grain of salt.

This is the best example I can think of to illustrate your point:

When I hear Nelson talk about not doing cardio b/c it doesn't do anything but make you fat. Why would I listen to that? Nelson is either a Mesomorph who is naturally lean, or an ectomorph, who can get ripped w/o even trying. As impressive as it was to gain the muscle he gained, he never had to struggle with drastically changing his body composition through the loss of large amounts of body fat.

There is only so much a person with a sluggish metabolism can do as far as diet goes....You need your 40% protein and 20-30% EFA's, and you can't cut calories too low (not below 2000 for a male b/w 170 and 190 IMO), so once you get to that point and fat loss stops, you NEED TO INCREASE CALORIES BURNED!!! Increasing weight lifting, which doesn't burn as many calories as cardio during the activity, can lead to over training if you increase it enough to see a significant caloric deficit. This means that once you are lifting the most you can to sustain/gain muscle and have your caloric intake as low as you can have it w/o going into starvation mode, you NEED to do cardio to break through plateau's. Just saying eat less and train more is bad advice simply b/c there is no more training to add and no more deficit to go in.


sorry for the rant...the point you made about taking advice from certain people w/ certain genetics reminded me exactly of the issue above. I had to get it off my chest.

There are two points in this post that are erroneous.

First of all, you are assuming my theories are based solely only on personal experience and that is not true. I use myself as an example of someone who practices what he preaches but the conclusions are not entirely personal. I've received hundreds of letters from people who were overweight who had amazing results with my methods. You simply did not follow them correctly or chose not to follow them at all because you were prejudiced against them from the start. At any rate, if you've done well on your own, that's great. But with my methods you would have done at least as well and most probably better.

Secondly, cardio DOES NOT burn more calories than weight training. The weight training I advocate for fat loss with burn FAR MORE fat than jogging or bike riding in the same amount of time. Again, it seems you misunderstood the principles.

 

[galaxy]

I was around 125 6 months after coming off and didnt feel like going through hypogondism for another 6 months to a year in order to recover so I went with TRT. Decision was easy for me.

Im now on 150mg enanthate and 10 days after inject i was 570 and mid level Free about 2.07. Of course I did jerk off twice before my test to maniputate. I was concerned because I had double up before going on vacaion.

Anywya, you not totally shut down but you might as well be because 134 total isnt doing shit for you and youll feel likek a pile of dog poo.

Im sure Nelsons supplements do help with his LH unlike the other poster who had none.

Now myself, Im going to start 25mgs of proviron and 20 to 60mgs winny tabs this week and start my clen as soon as I can get some. I may even do 50mgs clomid ed also.

And Im definately picking up some endo and dermacrin.

 

[Ralph_Wiggum]

There are two points in this post that are erroneous.

First of all, you are assuming my theories are based solely only on personal experience and that is not true. I use myself as an example of someone who practices what he preaches but the conclusions are not entirely personal. I've received hundreds of letters from people who were overweight who had amazing results with my methods. You simply did not follow them correctly or chose not to follow them at all because you were prejudiced against them from the start. At any rate, if you've done well on your own, that's great. But with my methods you would have done at least as well and most probably better.

Secondly, cardio DOES NOT burn more calories than weight training. The weight training I advocate for fat loss with burn FAR MORE fat than jogging or bike riding in the same amount of time. Again, it seems you misunderstood the principles.

You did a poor job explaining it then. I have done high rep, low rest interval training before. I even did this 5 days per week instead of cardio. I gave it 2 months and it didn't work. I'd like to see documentation or proof that your type of weight training burns more calories than a 9-min mile speed jog for the equivelant amount of time. Every calorie estimator I have ever briefed has listed even "intense" weight training as not even close. Hell, if you could provide the proof, I'd add that type of weight training in addition to the cardio I'm doing.


For now, I will be lifting in the same fashion that I lift while gaining muscle. It is the type that will allow me to keep muscle or gain it, which will benefit me more.

 

[Ross]

Let me chime in here...

Nelson is correct, weight-training(done properly) is more effective for fat loss than cardio alone.

Cardio ONLY BURNS CALORIES WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. Weight-training elevates the metabolism for 72 hours. Furthermore, muscle-mass increases the rate of calorie expidenture, so as you build muscle, you inevitably lose fat(if done peroperly)

However, for the serious bodybuilder trying to reach low single BF% digits without LOSING MUSCLE MASS(by restricting calories), LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO is absolutely necessary.

For me, that simply means 25 minutes of WALKING POST WORKOUT. Usually, on a slight incline at about 4 MPH. RUNNING is OFF LIMITS and is simply NOT part of the complex bodybuilding equation.

The ULTIMATE solution for fat-loss is a fully comprehensive program that includes weight-training and LOW-INTENSITY CARDIO.