Owned by 245 ...

[musketeer]

The only problem is that she is weaker at lockout than off the floor so elevating the pulling position doesn't help her anywhere near the amount it would someone with the opposite issue (I'm stronger at lockout and I imagine you are too - women can be the reverse). Also, as stated above 275 is a big % jump from 225. The 600 for a 500lbs lifter in a few weeks was the example to lend perspective.

SHIT, my bad!

I read her post again and that seems to be what SuperSqaut is saying.

How wierd! I never guessed that someone would be weaker at the TOP!

If that is the case then the top half lifts are not the best thing to do.

Perhaps some good old dumbel and barbell shrugs (plus good mornings - as someone else said earlier) are the way to go.

With regards ot the % increase, I still think that a 40lb gain is possible in about 6 training sessions.

Would you confirm that you are weaker at the lockout SuperSquat?

 

[Madcow2]

FYI this is a female too so it's not like an inexperienced male lifter putting 50lbs on a nominal 225 dead and managing 275 a month or so later. That 50lbs is a 22% increase which is huge for someone with experience in the lifts. This is like an experienced 500 deadlifter trying to hit 610 in a few weeks - that's massive. When lifters vary widely in their capcities it's better to look at relative % than just a poundage number because 50lbs to an 800 deadlifter is just over 6% yet for her is over 22%. This is why many people lay out training programs using a percentage of a lifter's single rep max (hence the usefulness of Intensity when defined as this objective measure). This allows someone to plot jumps and progressions that fit with the relative strength of a lifter. The only thing left to worry about is the conditioning level of an individual lifter and his ability to tolerate volume.

 

[curgeo]

It's funny, my lockout is my weak point as well. I got 500 to go for a ride but didn't have the speed or the glute/hip strength to throw my hips forward. I got the bar past my knees and almost up my leg but couldn't lock it out. My training partner said that my head was down so I wasn't leading with it...which by the way is the same thing that I do in the squat. Damn bodybuilding training all these years!!!!

The reason for the rep scheme that I layed out for her was that she was doing a lot of reps in the 55 percent range and she was wearing herself out for the final lift. I also recommended doing a set at 215 and then trying the 245. 225 is too close to her 90 percent range and I believe from her going to 245 that she has already pr'ed at 235 so she should try for a pr at the 245.

Again Madcow, great reply as usual.

 

[musketeer]

True, but she's failing at locking out 245 and can probably already manage 235.

If SuperSquat can get over the little lockout problem next workout, then there's only a 30lb increase on 245 which is practically 90% of 275. Over 5 more training sessions God knows how much better she could get at locking out. Wouldn't dream of argueing with the Madcow, but I dont think that a 500lb deadlifting veteran lady and the extremely shapely Supersquat can be compared equally - using percentages or not. The only way we can see if I'm right or not is for SS to get out there and do it!

BTW I don't see to many guys at my gym attemping 275!

 

[Madcow2]

I actually meant a male 500 deadlifter but we'll see. There are two scenarios at play and only seeing the lift would really allow one to hazard a guess. If she has a lot more capacity at the bottom and middle, and can learn to carry more speed through the lift while working on her lockout power you'll be right. What that basically means is that if she really is only lacking lockout power for 275 and through technique and some patchwork training can get through the lockout she'll make the lift, which is reasonable. The other scenario is that her 245 was a grindingly slow max rep the entire pull - meaning the bottom wasn't easy and her acceleration and technique was already maximized. In that scenario she might not even get 275 off the floor, no less have a chance to lock it out. Basically the entire chain lacks the capacity and needs to be increased so patchwork training and technique won't add much more than a slight increment and no where near the 22%.

This is like a guy who just barely grunts out 300 on the bench with spotters all around and the bar agonizingly slow and grinding the whole way and then expects to load and make 366 in 6 weeks. If it was super easy the whole lift and he wasn't going as fast as possible and just needed some tricept strength and speed to lock it out that's a whole different story. But a slow grinding rep with maxed capacity at all stages - that's a dramatic increase in strength throughout the entire range not just some patching and technique.

I'm hoping that the first case is correct for her but regardless she can perfect her technique, address her limiting points, and plan her training to chip away over a time period.

 

[musketeer]

Keep us posted SUperSquat!

 

[Mithrandir]

Hahahha, I did not realize you were a girl, the whole time I thougt you were a guy talking about bench press, then I read you were a girl and I thought, "damn, that is alot of weight!"--then I realized you were doing deads..still alot of weight! keep it up.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I actually meant a male 500 deadlifter but we'll see. There are two scenarios at play and only seeing the lift would really allow one to hazard a guess. If she has a lot more capacity at the bottom and middle, and can learn to carry more speed through the lift while working on her lockout power you'll be right. What that basically means is that if she really is only lacking lockout power for 275 and through technique and some patchwork training can get through the lockout she'll make the lift, which is reasonable. The other scenario is that her 245 was a grindingly slow max rep the entire pull - meaning the bottom wasn't easy and her acceleration and technique was already maximized. In that scenario she might not even get 275 off the floor, no less have a chance to lock it out. Basically the entire chain lacks the capacity and needs to be increased so patchwork training and technique won't add much more than a slight increment and no where near the 22%.

This is like a guy who just barely grunts out 300 on the bench with spotters all around and the bar agonizingly slow and grinding the whole way and then expects to load and make 366 in 6 weeks. If it was super easy the whole lift and he wasn't going as fast as possible and just needed some tricept strength and speed to lock it out that's a whole different story. But a slow grinding rep with maxed capacity at all stages - that's a dramatic increase in strength throughout the entire range not just some patching and technique.

I'm hoping that the first case is correct for her but regardless she can perfect her technique, address her limiting points, and plan her training to chip away over a time period.

How does one work on speed in the deadlift, or in any lift in general I guess. The reason I ask is now that I've chucked the touch and go and deweighting after every rep, each one of my deadlift reps is a grind, now that I'm at 3 x 3 especially.

Will I have to incorporate some kind of Westside program (which I've been meaning to read up on)?

 

[|3ossman]

who the hell is supersquat musketeer?

 

[Madcow2]

How does one work on speed in the deadlift, or in any lift in general I guess. The reason I ask is now that I've chucked the touch and go and deweighting after every rep, each one of my deadlift reps is a grind, now that I'm at 3 x 3 especially.

Will I have to incorporate some kind of Westside program (which I've been meaning to read up on)?

It need not necessarily be Westside but they use the technique which is fairly common - you can also use implements like bands to help in training. Moving a bar at a constant pace with submaximal weights generally means you aren't moving it as fast as possible (smooth acceleration not jerking). If you are limiting the speed, you are limiting the force you are generating. Speed is important. Go to my 5x5 thread and the table of contents has a "Why Acceleration is Critial" or some such. Read that link.