Nolva vs Clomid opinions wanted

[LAN T]

Why do people frontload clomid? Pointless IMO. Just do 50mg a day from the beginning of your pct and you'll be fine and recover fine.

Is that correct I was under the assumption I had to start higher and taper down?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Is that correct I was under the assumption I had to start higher and taper down?

the frontload has been reccomended for a long time..... unfortunately... as there is no scientific or experiential evidence to back it up.

 

[pursuit]

actually this study supports all those statements. reading the study (not the abstract as well as subsequent research into their binding will help)

btw- what the study says is that in gonadonormal men that both stimulate testostereone release and increase LH. mechanistically they do so differently. to clarify again tamox is an GnRH sensitizer (priming agent) whereas clomid is a GnRH releaser.

I think it usually follows that if a significant rise of testosterone is seen with normal males (82% is nothing to sniff at) then similar or better responses can be seen with hypogonadal men. In fact, I think the following statement at the end of the extract supports this:
"In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development."
That is before the tamoxifen treatment, their pituitary-gonadal axis wasn't working at all.


"in a normogonodal model, men producing normal levels of GnRH, tamoxifen does raise test slightly more, though this effect is transient and followed by lowered levels."

Again the effect isn't slight, and where is it written that this is followed by lower (than baseline) levels?

Also, I want to point out that the low libido that some people get while taking tamoxifen, while an issue, is probably caused by the tamoxifen itself and is not a function of your testosterone levels (which should actually be rising).

I'm not saying tamoxifen is better than clomid I'm just saying its a viable alternative. I'll believe its almost useless as Macro seems to be saying when he backs up all his statements very clearly for all to see.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I think it usually follows that if a significant rise of testosterone is seen with normal males (82% is nothing to sniff at) then similar or better responses can be seen with hypogonadal men. In fact, I think the following statement at the end of the extract supports this:
"In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development."
That is before the tamoxifen treatment, their pituitary-gonadal axis wasn't working at all.


"in a normogonodal model, men producing normal levels of GnRH, tamoxifen does raise test slightly more, though this effect is transient and followed by lowered levels."

Again the effect isn't slight, and where is it written that this is followed by lower (than baseline) levels?

Also, I want to point out that the low libido that some people get while taking tamoxifen, while an issue, is probably caused by the tamoxifen itself and is not a function of your testosterone levels (which should actually be rising).

I'm not saying tamoxifen is better than clomid I'm just saying its a viable alternative. I'll believe its almost useless as Macro seems to be saying when he backs up all his statements very clearly for all to see.

why dont you read more studies... then report back... your the one making claims that its a viable alternative (or in this case supporting the claims of others that tamox is a good PCT choice)....

could answer your arguments, explain why there is an effect in delayed pubertal boys (hint- priming), post the studies that show transient increases in tamox (its actually in the full study, but you can find it in other abstracts).. but you can do a pubmed search and find all that info for yourself....

though as bone (ie throwing you one), will agree that it is tamox itself that causes the libido issues (not based on studies, though the underlying mechanism is presented within them, but on the fact that it causes this on cycle as well)

normally would just spoon feed it to you... but something in your tone says you need to learn it for yourself... since you seem to think you have the answer already...

if you think thats harsh, well its late and maybe if you re-read your posts you might agree, maybe not... maybe its just late...

 

[ricorico]

why dont you read more studies... then report back... your the one making claims that its a viable alternative (or in this case supporting the claims of others that tamox is a good PCT choice)....

could answer your arguments, explain why there is an effect in delayed pubertal boys (hint- priming), post the studies that show transient increases in tamox (its actually in the full study, but you can find it in other abstracts).. but you can do a pubmed search and find all that info for yourself....

though as bone (ie throwing you one), will agree that it is tamox itself that causes the libido issues (not based on studies, though the underlying mechanism is presented within them, but on the fact that it causes this on cycle as well)

normally would just spoon feed it to you... but something in your tone says you need to learn it for yourself... since you seem to think you have the answer already...

if you think thats harsh, well its late and maybe if you re-read your posts you might agree, maybe not... maybe its just late...

hey MAC, ive always substituted nolva for clomid because im deathly afraid of gettin bad post cycle blues, befoe i knew what PCT was (when i was a newbie 10 cycles ago) i would fall into HUGE depressions for almost 2 full months following the cycle. so latley my PCT has been hcg, nolva, aifm, zma.....is that suffiecent even for longer cycles? (16+ weeks), or should i start considering some clomid?

 

[njmuscleguy]

Clomid sides definitely suck.... I've been taking selegiline for a while (10mg ED), seems to be helping a bit with mood-enhancement.... other things worth trying to offset depression: St. John's Wort, 5-HTP, Rhodiola Rosea, B-Vitamins, Selenium

 

[jetty]

AIFM... no questions asked.